2019 Tax Returns - results are appearing on-line

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Re: 2019 Tax Returns - results are appearing on-line

Post by Headers »

Mrs Archy wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:49 pm
Just printed mine off and all as I expected except that I would normally pay in full before 15th Sept deadline however this year's bill says they are taking four equal monthly payments starting Sept which has rather thrown me - I hope I'm reading it correctly or I'll be in for a fine!
I am assuming the same as you. I pay every 3 months so the 4 payments at the end of the year are a bit odd.

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Re: 2019 Tax Returns - results are appearing on-line

Post by Le Démerdeur »

2018 was the année blanche. You would have paid the taxes in 2019 instead you paid towards those of 2019 in the year itself estimated from the 2017 declaration.

The prélèvements that you pay this year are towards your tax liability for this year which wont be calculated for another 12 months.

The avis that you have just recieved will be for 2019 and if the prélèvements that you paid in 2019 were more then there will be a refund.

You can in theory réactualise your income on impots.gouv.fr at any time and the prélèvements will be altered to suit, in practice it wouldn't allow me to this year as what I was telling them my income would be was one 5th of what had been estimated from my 2018 return, however this week it allowed me too, I think so many are in the same situation that they had to change the parameters, the prélèvements have stopped and I will get a big refund.
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Re: 2019 Tax Returns - results are appearing on-line

Post by elsie »

Mrs Archy:
I've also got to pay the remaining sum in four instalments starting September. Those payments are to finish your tax payments for 2019. (NOTE: They will be in addition to the prélèvement you are already paying for 2020)

Leclairon:
the prélèvements are on the web site (once you know where to find them). They are now broken down by calendar/tax year
Espace particulier > Gérer mon prélèvement à la source
LHS Consulter l'historique de tous vos prélèvements
you can see the payments already made for the individual tax years 2018, 2019, 2020

Leclairon:
At the very top of the Avis there is a box La notice de cet avis est disponible en cliquant ici...clicking on the link takes you to another web page Notice avis impôts sur les revenus-prélèvements sociaux https://www.impots.gouv.fr/portail/form ... ts-sociaux and clicking on Formulaire 1534-NOT-K : Notice avis impôts sur les revenus-prélèvements sociaux gives you the explanation of your avis and all the notes.

---------------
To confuse things, they've split the tax and social charges on the avis (in my case)

On the Avis there is a section
CALCUL DU SOLDE DE VOTRE IMPOT POUR 2019 :
IMPOT SUR LE REVENU
Acomptes prélevés en 2019 sur votre compte bancaire : - payments already made
Solde d'impôt sur les revenus 2019 - tax amount remaining to be paid

PRELEVEMENTS SOCIAUX
Acomptes prélevés en 2019 sur votre compte bancaire : figures for CSG and PSOL (they've assumed a CSG payment even if there isn't one but the total of CSG + PSOL is the correct figure deducted from the Due figure.
Solde des prélèvements sociaux 2019 - social charges remaining to be paid

then TOTAL DE VOTRE IMPOSITION NETTE RESTANT A PAYER gives the total of tax and social charges remaining to be paid. In my case they've split that figure into four for payments in Sept-Dec.

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Re: 2019 Tax Returns - results are appearing on-line

Post by FrenchForumSurvivor »

Have discovered that I will have 4 hefty and painful payments to make from September 2020, having been non-imposable until now, there have been no prélèvements previously for which we could get a rebate. I would much prefer to split the payments into prélèvements à la source for the two of us, both still working, but I must have not ticked a box somewhere when declaring, so a visit to the tax office is called for.
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Re: 2019 Tax Returns - results are appearing on-line

Post by Mrs Archy »

Quote "Elsie I've also got to pay the remaining sum in four instalments starting September. Those payments are to finish your tax payments for 2019. (NOTE: They will be in addition to the prélèvement you are already paying for 2020)".

Elsie I paid in full a one off payment online in 2019 I don't owe Mr Tax Man anything so I don't quite understand when you say to finish your tax payments for 2019.

At the bottom of my Avis it says 'cet echeancier se substitue a la date limite de paiement fixee au 15/09/2020.' It's not a remaining sum (maybe remaining isn't the right word) it's what I owe for 2019's declaration - which exactly matched my calculations. The 4 instalments add up in total to the 'Somme qu'il vous reste a payer' so I thought that meant instead of my one off payment they have decided to take the amount instead in 4 payments - I'm very confused now :? - why is it never simple?
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Re: 2019 Tax Returns - results are appearing on-line

Post by elsie »

Mrs Archy wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:16 pm
Quote "Elsie I've also got to pay the remaining sum in four instalments starting September. Those payments are to finish your tax payments for 2019. (NOTE: They will be in addition to the prélèvement you are already paying for 2020)".

Elsie I paid in full a one off payment online in 2019 I don't owe Mr Tax Man anything so I don't quite understand when you say to finish your tax payments for 2019.

At the bottom of my Avis it says 'cet echeancier se substitue a la date limite de paiement fixee au 15/09/2020.' It's not a remaining sum (maybe remaining isn't the right word) it's what I owe for 2019's declaration - which exactly matched my calculations. The 4 instalments add up in total to the 'Somme qu'il vous reste a payer' so I thought that meant instead of my one off payment they have decided to take the amount instead in 4 payments - I'm very confused now :? - why is it never simple?
The tax system has now changed. You no longer pay in arrears. In theory you pay your taxes in the current year. If you were employed in France your employee would deduct the tax automatically and you French bank, etc will have deducted tax, etc. That is why it will now not necessary for many French to even complete a tax return. However, those like us with foreign income are in a different situation. The foreign source of that income can't deduct the tax for the French tax office. So they estimate our likely tax, etc and we get a note of the expected prélèvements which we pay (usually) monthly. In theory we can be fined if we don't pay at the expected rate but there are so many variables I doubt they do so unless the difference is significant. They can only reconcile our tax once we have submitted a return for the previous year and either make a refund if the prélèvements were too much or make a demand for the additional tax owed.

So the lump sum you paid in September 2019 was the additional tax you owed for the 2018 tax year (AVIS D’IMPÔT 2019 IMPÔT SUR LE REVENU ET PRÉLÈVEMENTS SOCIAUX sur les revenus de 2018)

The avis which has just become available (Impôt et prélèvements sociaux sur les revenus de 2019 Avis d’impôt établi en 2020) you now have is for the 2019 tax year. A the bottom of the first page:
Le prélèvement à la source a débuté le 1er janvier 2019.
Cet avis fait suite à la déclaration, en 2020, de vos revenus 2019. Le montant porté sur cet avis prend en compte les prélèvements et retenues à la source qui ont pu être réalisés en 2019.
Pour retrouver toutes les informations relatives à votre prélèvement à la source (taux, options...), rendez-vous sur le service «Gérer mon prélèvement à la source» accessible dans votre espace particulier sur impots.gouv.fr.

If you have been paying prélèvement in 2019 and 2020 you need to look at the Consulter l'historique de tous vos prélèvements I mentioned above so you can see the payments made for the individual tax years. The figure for payments in 2019 is the one of relevance for this avis. Near the top RHS is Total prélevé sur l'année. The avis you now have shows you the tax/social charges you have to pay for 2019 and the difference between that and what you have already paid.

You have to pay any extra you owe for 2019 as well as continuing to pay prélèvements for the 2020 tax.

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Re: 2019 Tax Returns - results are appearing on-line

Post by Leclairon »

Thanks v.much for the explanations. I will print it off to try and work through the Avis.

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Re: 2019 Tax Returns - results are appearing on-line

Post by Mrs Archy »

elsie wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:05 pm
Mrs Archy wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:16 pm
Quote "Elsie I've also got to pay the remaining sum in four instalments starting September. Those payments are to finish your tax payments for 2019. (NOTE: They will be in addition to the prélèvement you are already paying for 2020)".

Elsie I paid in full a one off payment online in 2019 I don't owe Mr Tax Man anything so I don't quite understand when you say to finish your tax payments for 2019.

At the bottom of my Avis it says 'cet echeancier se substitue a la date limite de paiement fixee au 15/09/2020.' It's not a remaining sum (maybe remaining isn't the right word) it's what I owe for 2019's declaration - which exactly matched my calculations. The 4 instalments add up in total to the 'Somme qu'il vous reste a payer' so I thought that meant instead of my one off payment they have decided to take the amount instead in 4 payments - I'm very confused now :? - why is it never simple?
The tax system has now changed. You no longer pay in arrears. In theory you pay your taxes in the current year. If you were employed in France your employee would deduct the tax automatically and you French bank, etc will have deducted tax, etc. That is why it will now not necessary for many French to even complete a tax return. However, those like us with foreign income are in a different situation. The foreign source of that income can't deduct the tax for the French tax office. So they estimate our likely tax, etc and we get a note of the expected prélèvements which we pay (usually) monthly. In theory we can be fined if we don't pay at the expected rate but there are so many variables I doubt they do so unless the difference is significant. They can only reconcile our tax once we have submitted a return for the previous year and either make a refund if the prélèvements were too much or make a demand for the additional tax owed.

So the lump sum you paid in September 2019 was the additional tax you owed for the 2018 tax year (AVIS D’IMPÔT 2019 IMPÔT SUR LE REVENU ET PRÉLÈVEMENTS SOCIAUX sur les revenus de 2018)

The avis which has just become available (Impôt et prélèvements sociaux sur les revenus de 2019 Avis d’impôt établi en 2020) you now have is for the 2019 tax year. A the bottom of the first page:
Le prélèvement à la source a débuté le 1er janvier 2019.
Cet avis fait suite à la déclaration, en 2020, de vos revenus 2019. Le montant porté sur cet avis prend en compte les prélèvements et retenues à la source qui ont pu être réalisés en 2019.
Pour retrouver toutes les informations relatives à votre prélèvement à la source (taux, options...), rendez-vous sur le service «Gérer mon prélèvement à la source» accessible dans votre espace particulier sur impots.gouv.fr.

If you have been paying prélèvement in 2019 and 2020 you need to look at the Consulter l'historique de tous vos prélèvements I mentioned above so you can see the payments made for the individual tax years. The figure for payments in 2019 is the one of relevance for this avis. Near the top RHS is Total prélevé sur l'année. The avis you now have shows you the tax/social charges you have to pay for 2019 and the difference between that and what you have already paid.

You have to pay any extra you owe for 2019 as well as continuing to pay prélèvements for the 2020 tax.
Thank you Elsie very informative and now I have brain fog should not have had wine with lunch and then try to understand the tax system! I've checked the the 'consulter l'historique de tous vos prelevements' as you suggest and it shows 0% for all the years listed. We have never worked in France and we don't have any income from the UK other than our private pensions which we have never paid tax on as we don't receive enough income ie we are and always have been under the bareme but we do pay contribution socials on our pension income and have a little interest that we pay social charges on as well.

So are you saying that I have to pay the 1094 ie 'somme qu'il vous reste a payer and the tax man will also take the 4 instalments in Sept/Oct/Nov/Dec. The reason I'm confused is that it says under the Compte que sera debite.........cet echeancier se substitue a la date limite de paiement fixee au 15/09/20. I do apologise for being so thick but just when I think I've understood the system it comes back and unsettles me! I was under the illusion that prev. a la souce was for income from being employed. Oh la la - bring on the bottle! :D
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Re: 2019 Tax Returns - results are appearing on-line

Post by FrenchForumSurvivor »

Mrs Archy wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:24 pm
So are you saying that I have to pay the 1094 ie 'somme qu'il vous reste a payer and the tax man will also take the 4 instalments in Sept/Oct/Nov/Dec. The reason I'm confused is that it says under the Compte que sera debite.........cet echeancier se substitue a la date limite de paiement fixee au 15/09/20. I do apologise for being so thick but just when I think I've understood the system it comes back and unsettles me! I was under the illusion that prev. a la souce was for income from being employed. Oh la la - bring on the bottle!
If they've suddenly decided that you have to pay 1094€ after years of paying nothing, Mrs A, then I think there's a problem and you need to visit the tax office. And I'm pretty sure that you're correct in saying that prélèvement à la source is for those currently earning income from employment in France.
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Re: 2019 Tax Returns - results are appearing on-line

Post by Mrs Archy »

[/quote]If they've suddenly decided that you have to pay 1094€ after years of paying nothing, Mrs A, then I think there's a problem and you need to visit the tax office. And I'm pretty sure that you're correct in saying that prélèvement à la source is for those currently earning income from employment in France.
[/quote]

We have always had to pay PS on our pensions and interest and I had calculated in advance and correctly that we do have to pay the 1094 as its 982 CSG based on our UK early retired private pensions plus a tiny amount ie 112 euros on interest. Also I managed to dig out this that I'd saved from French Property News in 2018 but I don't know if the details still apply.

"Clearly, in future, where pension or salaried income is generated from outside of France there can be no deduction at source.
Only if you have not previously elected to pay on account each month, and pay in three instalments each year, will it change to a monthly (or quarterly) deduction from your bank account.
As with employees the amount of the deduction will be based on your previous tax returns. In the absence of a previous tax record you will be taxed the following year, or you can choose to pay a sum in advance 'on account'.
The final assessment of your liability will be carried out following submission of your tax return, when you will either receive a tax refund or be required to pay any additional tax due over a four-month period.
If you do not actually pay any income tax you will not be required to pay provisional monthly payments."
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