Living under the radar in Europe

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Catrose
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Re: Living under the radar in Europe

Post by Catrose »

exile wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:21 pm
Catrose wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:07 am
exile wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:46 pm

The use of "usually" implies exceptions but the site gives no clues as to what those might be.

The fact that most big and reputable insurers do not offer 365 day insurance abroad raises the question of why and it may be that it is because they do not want to become involved with the legal complications of registration of vehicles not based in the UK.
I think the exemptions are thing like commercial vans, vehicles owned by military personal etc

And insurers only offer 6 months insurance as after 6 months residence you are supposed to change plates. So yes you can take your UK reg car to france, and if tell your insurer they you have moved they may well not insure you for more than 6 months more. And then a french insurer will insure you for 6 months if you say you have just arrived. If not, that is a bit of a clue as to what’s legal and what’s not.

Has anyone had long term car insurance when the nationality of the car plates does not match the country of the permanent address given to the insurers? Ie english insurance company insuring a french reg car to a UK address - or french insurer insuring UK reg car to a french address?
If you tell your UK insurer your have moved to France, they cancel the insurance instantly. They have no provision nor rights under EU directives to provide insurance to people living outside of the UK.
Which is not quite what I was saying...but no matter.

TriciaF
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Re: Living under the radar in Europe

Post by TriciaF »

You men - can't you see that there's more to living below the radar in Fance than in cars?

Spardo

Re: Living under the radar in Europe

Post by Spardo »

PatF wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:57 pm
You men - can't you see that there's more to living below the radar in Fance than in cars?
I can, or rather I could if I had any knowledge of under the radar, but are you sure all the people posting about cars, are men? :?

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Le Démerdeur
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Re: Living under the radar in Europe

Post by Le Démerdeur »

PUMA affiliation to L'Assurance Maladie, doing a tax return and getting refunds for overpayments of property taxes are nothing to do with cars.

Being under the radar means being invisible in plain sight and in this instance being physically resident whilst administratively remaining a resident of another country

Broadly speaking there are 3 main subjects.

Being imposable, submitting tax returns and paying taxes & social charges.

Affiliation to Assurance Maladie and paying healthcare cotisations where due.

Registering and insuring your vehicle(s) in France.

Feel free to add others.

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Catrose
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Re: Living under the radar in Europe

Post by Catrose »

Declaring your house as your primary residence (saves you money too...)

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Re: Living under the radar in Europe

Post by Le Démerdeur »

How so?

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Catrose
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Re: Living under the radar in Europe

Post by Catrose »

You can’t get any exemptions from taxe d’hab, which is going down to 0 for many people, and in some areas they slap a 20% surcharge on second homes too (in Paris it is 60%). You can’t get credit impôts for any environmental improvement works you do, if you do happen to make a profit when you sell you will have to pay capital gains tax (with a couple of exceptions).

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Catrose
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Re: Living under the radar in Europe

Post by Catrose »

Here is the text that confirms you should be resident in the country where you register your car...

The EU Directive on vehicle registration, C2007/068/04, has this -
3. REGISTERING A MOTOR VEHICLE IN THE MEMBER STATE OF RESIDENCE

3.1. What is the Member State of residence for the purpose of registration?

According to the Court of Justice, registration is the natural corollary of the exercise of the powers of taxation in the area of motor vehicles. It facilitates supervision both for the Member State of registration and for other Member States, since registration in one Member State constitutes proof of payment of taxes on motor vehicles in that State (11).

Every individual must register his vehicle in the Member State in which he is normally resident. Article 7 of Directive 83/182/EEC (12) and Article 6 of Directive 83/183/EEC (13) set out precise rules for determining normal residence in situations where the persons concerned are respectively temporarily or permanently living and driving in a Member State other than their own. However, the case law of the Court of Justice holds that the quantitative criterion to which this article refers (having to live more than 185 days per year in a given place) cannot be taken as the main criterion if there are other factors which alter the situation.

According to the Court of Justice, where a person has both personal and occupational ties in two Member States, his normal residence, determined in the context of an overall assessment by reference to all the relevant facts, is that where the permanent centre of interests of that person is located; in the event that such an overall assessment does not result in its determination, primacy must be given to personal ties (14).

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Re: Living under the radar in Europe

Post by exile »

Thanks for that. As I said I know several people who it would seem have illegally registered their vehicles.

For one at least it would have been interesting to return his vehicle to the USA for the intermittent testing! Having developed some severe problems that would have led to a spectacular CT fail, he scrapped it.

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Re: Living under the radar in Europe

Post by Le Démerdeur »

If you manage to regsiter a car in France to the address of your second home there, if you get French insurance and use it in France or other EU countries but not the UK I would not say that the person was breaking any law.

To my knowledge an EU directive is not law, if there is a French law prohibiting any of the above I would be happy to learn of it.

Pragmatically the situation that I describe above is the most sensible one under the circumstances described.

My previous French registered car is currently stranded in the UK (confinement + quarantine period) if there were flights from the aéroport on my doorstep to Gatwick I would choose to leave it there, if I did not unreregister it (always wanted to use "unre" :D ) the police would soon be on my case to do so, even if I did not have a permanent address there the DVLA would allow me to regsiter it even to an accomodation address or a hôtel, I could tax it and insure it and be legal whenever I drove it.

OK you could argue the nuances of insurance but having a vehicle in two countries is something that thousands of Europeans do, if you are a short bearded ex radio DJ turned TV game show presenter then you simply use the same UK plates on 2 identical Range Rovers and blame your housekeeper/mechanic when you get caught :lol:

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