I don't know how I feel about this.

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After the Storm

Re: I don't know how I feel about this.

Post by After the Storm »

What a shame you had to spoil your post “shafting” ( your word from another thread) people that weren’t just sitting at home making judgement calls about others protesting but actually doing something they considered needed to be done since the council there hadn’t done it themselves. It’s good to see the younger generation want to improve things for everyone and if that means a person, that is not white or is white, is happier walking past with that statue no longer in place then well done to them.

Ally

Re: I don't know how I feel about this.

Post by Ally »

Not before time, the Scottish parliament is to debate street names honouring those who capitalised on slavery.

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Re: I don't know how I feel about this.

Post by Mangetout »

Timoth wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:36 pm
It is a pity that the statue was not removed by the Council, as had been discussed and, I thought, agreed. It was shameful to see a load of drunks jumping for joy on the statue rather than its solemn removal.
Why should it be solemnly removed? It's the statue of a man who made his money on the backs of black lives, causing unimaginable misery and suffering. Then he sought to ensure his place in perpetuity by so say charitable donations. Pity he hadn't thought of charity before he condemned all those poor souls to such torment. God rot his soul. Celebrate those that do good, however small, not Tory rich boys who think they are entitled to do what they want.

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Re: I don't know how I feel about this.

Post by FrenchForumSurvivor »

Timoth wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:36 pm
It is a pity that the statue was not removed by the Council, as had been discussed and, I thought, agreed. It was shameful to see a load of drunks jumping for joy on the statue rather than its solemn removal.
Had it been removed by the Council, I doubt the removal would have been solemn.

Now that Colston's statue has been knocked off its pedestal, by the same token all statues of any of the following should be treated likewise, being as they were all notable investors in the Royal African Company, of which Colston was Deputy Governor:

Charles II of England
Tobias Rustat, a courtier to Charles II
James Stuart, Duke of York – governor of the RAC from its creation and largest shareholder
John Locke
Samuel Pepys
Anthony Ashley Cooper, 1st Earl of Shaftesbury
Sir Robert Clayton
Sir Edmund Andros
Henry Bennet
Earl of Arlington
George Villiers
Lord Buckingham
Sir George Carteret
Earl of Craven
Lawrence Du Puy
Ferdinand Gorges
Lord Francis Hawley
Thomas Povey
Prince Rupert
Sir Joseph Williamson
Matthew Wren
Sir Peter Colleton
Sir John Banks
Sir Josiah Child

But on the topic of slavery in general, from a link previously given - https://www.rmg.co.uk/explore/how-did-s ... nd-britain -
Between 1662 and 1807 British and British colonial ships purchased an estimated 3,415,500 Africans. Of this number, 2,964,800 survived the 'middle passage' and were sold into slavery in the Americas. ....

Only Portugal/Brazil transported more Africans across the Atlantic than Britain.
Even assuming the figures for Portugal and Brazil were the same as England's, that makes a total of over 5 900 000 slaves transported, approximately the same number of Jews killed during the Holocaust, and over a much longer period of time when slavery was seen as a simple business venture. Who's got the most right to bear a grudge?
"I am a man of fixed and unbending principles, the first of which is to be flexible at all times." - Everett Dirksen

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Re: I don't know how I feel about this.

Post by sprocket »

Just for a bit about Bristol. There was never a vote on whether the statue should be removed, I thought there was but apparently only in the local newspaper where 1100 votes were cast, the majority in favour of the statue remaining.

The Colston Hall has invited the public to suggest new names for the venue. Coslton Primary School has changed it's name to Cotham Gardens Primary. There still remains Colston Avenue, Colston Street, Colston Boys School and Colston Girls School. The main Thoroughfares of Bristol are Whiteladies Road leading to Blackboy Hill. Then there is the Wills building at Bristol University, perhaps that is another story.

In the background to the pictures of Colston taking his dive can be seen Pero's Bridge with it's two counterweights (Shrek ears). The bridge was named in commemoration of one slave who was born in West Indies and lived and died in the city.

A lot of under the carpet sweeping necessary?

I grew up in Bristol and like many Bristolians, not comfortable with the statue but it served to remind us all of the City's past and where the wealth to grow the city came from. it was right in the centre of Bristol and as I remember very close to a long, long row of gentleman's conveniences. Apt really, but long ago demolished.

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Re: I don't know how I feel about this.

Post by FrenchForumSurvivor »

exile wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:02 pm
Actually there is [a mention of slaves in the biography of Colston], but it is buried so as not to be easily found.

"By 1682 he was using profits from the slave trade for money-lending."
Not so buried as all that: "From 1680 he became heavily involved in the slave trade, from which he made the bulk of his fortune, and was an active member of the Royal African Company, becoming deputy-governor briefly during 1689–90."
"I am a man of fixed and unbending principles, the first of which is to be flexible at all times." - Everett Dirksen

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Re: I don't know how I feel about this.

Post by Flaneur »

Here's an interesting fact I didn't know.

In 1833, the UK government bought the freedom of the empire's slaves. It cost £20,000,000, the equivalent of 40% of that year's budget, and (I think because of the way government spending works) wasn't paid off until 2014.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... n-act-1833
Same old nonsense.

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Re: I don't know how I feel about this.

Post by Bald Eagle »

In 2010, Henry Louis Gates Jr wrote the following in The New York Times:

The historians John Thornton and Linda Heywood of Boston University estimate that 90 percent of those shipped to the New World were enslaved by Africans and then sold to European traders. The sad truth is that without complex business partnerships between African elites and European traders and commercial agents, the slave trade to the New World would have been impossible, at least on the scale it occurred.
“Never argue with a know-it-all. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

Ally

Re: I don't know how I feel about this.

Post by Ally »

Flaneur wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 11:23 am
Here's an interesting fact I didn't know.

In 1833, the UK government bought the freedom of the empire's slaves. It cost £20,000,000, the equivalent of 40% of that year's budget, and (I think because of the way government spending works) wasn't paid off until 2014.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... n-act-1833
The Slave Compensation Act 1837. Even the name of the act would make you puke.
Single payments were the equivalent of millions in today's terms. The great and the good looking after each other.

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Re: I don't know how I feel about this.

Post by Flaneur »

The Slavery Abolition Act 1837.
Same old nonsense.

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