Cars, speeding and safety .

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Speeding in a car

Poll ended at Tue Jun 09, 2020 8:43 am

1. It should never be allowed.
10
37%
2. Why not if the autoroutes empty.
16
59%
3. I have never broken the speed limit.
1
4%
 
Total votes: 27

Spardo

Re: Cars, speeding and safety .

Post by Spardo »

exile wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:09 am
David
I do understand where you are coming from but a 2 ton car at 200kph does a lot less damage than a 40/44/46t truck at 90 when push comes to run into.
Add to that that very few cars are driven at 200kph but almost all trucks are driven at 90.
Depends what it hits or what it causes to swerve and crash in the goodness knows how many 100s of metres it takes that car to stop.

I have tried to find stopping comparative distances but my head is spinning. One site said 350 metres for a car at 200 km/hr while a truck could stop in 200 at 90. Added to the problem that half of the figures in the various sites talk of mph and feet, whereas others quote km/hr and metres. The bloody AA caps them all by mixing mph and metres.

Even Brake, the road safety organisation formed because of a fatal crash involving a lorry, not speeding but badly maintained, can give me little information and only covers car speeds up to 70.

But what prompted this little debate with us this evening, was your 'thank' (therefore presumably agreement) to JS that 200 km/hr was safe on an autobahn. On a race track maybe but not when they share the same road and sometimes same lanes as vehicles doing almost half that speed. I believe the minimum in the 3rd lane of an autobahn is 110 km/hr. The difference just happens to be the total speed of a lorry. How anyone can consider that
a closing speed of 90 km/hr is safe is beyond me. Hence my comment 'ridiculous'.

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Re: Cars, speeding and safety .

Post by Nifty »

FPS ? ;)

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Re: Cars, speeding and safety .

Post by exile »

Spardo wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:58 am
exile wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:09 am
David
I do understand where you are coming from but a 2 ton car at 200kph does a lot less damage than a 40/44/46t truck at 90 when push comes to run into.
Add to that that very few cars are driven at 200kph but almost all trucks are driven at 90.
Depends what it hits or what it causes to swerve and crash in the goodness knows how many 100s of metres it takes that car to stop.

I have tried to find stopping comparative distances but my head is spinning. One site said 350 metres for a car at 200 km/hr while a truck could stop in 200 at 90. Added to the problem that half of the figures in the various sites talk of mph and feet, whereas others quote km/hr and metres. The bloody AA caps them all by mixing mph and metres.

Even Brake, the road safety organisation formed because of a fatal crash involving a lorry, not speeding but badly maintained, can give me little information and only covers car speeds up to 70.

But what prompted this little debate with us this evening, was your 'thank' (therefore presumably agreement) to JS that 200 km/hr was safe on an autobahn. On a race track maybe but not when they share the same road and sometimes same lanes as vehicles doing almost half that speed. I believe the minimum in the 3rd lane of an autobahn is 110 km/hr. The difference just happens to be the total speed of a lorry. How anyone can consider that
a closing speed of 90 km/hr is safe is beyond me. Hence my comment 'ridiculous'.
I think you missed the point David. The message from JSKS was clearly that inappropriate speed is more important than absolute speed. That is what I was thanking, not 200kph itself. There may be occasions where that is indeed appropriate, personally I have never been in that position.

Spardo

Re: Cars, speeding and safety .

Post by Spardo »

exile wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:28 am


I think you missed the point David. The message from JSKS was clearly that inappropriate speed is more important than absolute speed. That is what I was thanking, not 200kph itself. There may be occasions where that is indeed appropriate, personally I have never been in that position.
I have definitely not missed the point, Andy. JSKS said
Precisely. 200kph on the Autobahn, safe; 35kph past the school gates at chucking out time, not safe. Inappropriate speed is the key.
The inference from that statement is clearly that he thinks 200 km/hr is an appropriate speed. My point is that it is certainly not an appropriate speed, especially on a road system that allows other vehicles right down to as slow as 66 km/hr. Madness.

The last time that I know of when that speed was justified was when Rudi Carracciola beat the World Land Speed Record on a closed Autobahn in 1938. Better not tell JSKS that the great man did around 437 km/hr that day, he might get ideas. ;) :lol:

Sadly, shortly afterwards on the same day on the same stretch, his friend and rival Bernd Rosemeyer tried to beat it and a gust of wind blew him off the road, causing his death.

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Re: Cars, speeding and safety .

Post by b33jay »

Spardo wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:15 pm

Surprised you remember that far back. And the reasons behind it, because I am old enough to remember it being introduced and I can't remember the year. But I would love to know what drivers were doing so irresponsibly to warrant such a drastic and short sighted imposition.

Edit - January 1st 1994.
I remember it well having been involved with HGVs from getting my driving licence in 1956.

1965 temporary 70mph speed limit and 50 mph speed limits on some trunk roads

1967 I drove an experimental 24t artic fitted with an Allison automatic transmission on the M1 at 70 mph

1970 HGV licence introduced with groups by weight and axle layout and a driving test requirement (I qualified for grandfather rights)

1992 Coaches required a 70 mph limiter and vehicles over 7.5t required a 60 mph speed limiter changed to 112/90 kph (60/56 mph) in 1994 to comply with EU regs.

1992 also saw permanent speed cameras introduced and 1.6mm tyre tread depth legislation.

Spardo

Re: Cars, speeding and safety .

Post by Spardo »

b33jay wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:31 pm
Spardo wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:15 pm

Surprised you remember that far back. And the reasons behind it, because I am old enough to remember it being introduced and I can't remember the year. But I would love to know what drivers were doing so irresponsibly to warrant such a drastic and short sighted imposition.

Edit - January 1st 1994.
I remember it well having been involved with HGVs from getting my driving licence in 1956.

1965 temporary 70mph speed limit and 50 mph speed limits on some trunk roads

1967 I drove an experimental 24t artic fitted with an Allison automatic transmission on the M1 at 70 mph

1970 HGV licence introduced with groups by weight and axle layout and a driving test requirement (I qualified for grandfather rights)

1992 Coaches required a 70 mph limiter and vehicles over 7.5t required a 60 mph speed limiter changed to 112/90 kph (60/56 mph) in 1994 to comply with EU regs.

1992 also saw permanent speed cameras introduced and 1.6mm tyre tread depth legislation.
That would be the fiery redhead Barbara Castle as Transport Minister. Before her time I had a Kew Dodge artic with a fully freighted 4-in-line trailer at 75 in the 3rd lane. Steady as a rock, but if I had had a later experience with that set-up first, where the slightest variation in tyre pressures made them unstable, I wouldn't have. ;) :roll:

Would the experimental one be the NORD (North Derbyshire Engineering)? Or was that only an 8-wheeler?

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Re: Cars, speeding and safety .

Post by b33jay »

Spardo wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:53 pm

Would the experimental one be the NORD (North Derbyshire Engineering)? Or was that only an 8-wheeler?
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Re: Cars, speeding and safety .

Post by FrenchForumSurvivor »

Spardo wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:15 pm
exile wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:28 am


I think you missed the point David. The message from JSKS was clearly that inappropriate speed is more important than absolute speed. That is what I was thanking, not 200kph itself. There may be occasions where that is indeed appropriate, personally I have never been in that position.
I have definitely not missed the point, Andy. JSKS said
Precisely. 200kph on the Autobahn, safe; 35kph past the school gates at chucking out time, not safe. Inappropriate speed is the key.
The inference from that statement is clearly that he thinks 200 km/hr is an appropriate speed. My point is that it is certainly not an appropriate speed, especially on a road system that allows other vehicles right down to as slow as 66 km/hr. Madness.
Sorry, Spardo, but it's your inference that is wrong: jsks said, "200kph on the Autobahn, safe", which to me means that if it is safe to drive at 200kph on the Autobahn, then one can do so. One matches one's speed to the conditions, that's what 'appropriate' means.
"I am a man of fixed and unbending principles, the first of which is to be flexible at all times." - Everett Dirksen

Spardo

Re: Cars, speeding and safety .

Post by Spardo »

FrenchForumSurvivor wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:35 am
Spardo wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:15 pm
exile wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:28 am


I think you missed the point David. The message from JSKS was clearly that inappropriate speed is more important than absolute speed. That is what I was thanking, not 200kph itself. There may be occasions where that is indeed appropriate, personally I have never been in that position.
I have definitely not missed the point, Andy. JSKS said
Precisely. 200kph on the Autobahn, safe; 35kph past the school gates at chucking out time, not safe. Inappropriate speed is the key.
The inference from that statement is clearly that he thinks 200 km/hr is an appropriate speed. My point is that it is certainly not an appropriate speed, especially on a road system that allows other vehicles right down to as slow as 66 km/hr. Madness.
Sorry, Spardo, but it's your inference that is wrong: jsks said, "200kph on the Autobahn, safe", which to me means that if it is safe to drive at 200kph on the Autobahn, then one can do so. One matches one's speed to the conditions, that's what 'appropriate' means.
Sorry FFS but I do not agree. It is never safe to drive on an autoroute at 200 km/hr unless the autoroute is closed to all other traffic, as in the Carracciola example. At 200 km/hr you can never be sure of avoiding something you cannot see or interpret correctly in the distance.

And it is you who takes the wrong inference. "200kph on the Autobahn, safe" is not the same as "if it is safe to drive at 200kph on the Autobahn", which pre-supposes that you know it is safe, therefore it is safe to do. At that speed you cannot possibly know what is safe and not safe in the far distance. One slow vehicle, not necessarily a lorry, could suddenly swerve into the 3rd lane for a multitude of reasons and the result would be chaos.

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Re: Cars, speeding and safety .

Post by FrenchForumSurvivor »

I wonder if you're mixing your speeds, Spardo, 200kph is only 120mph, which on a clear autoroute in fine conditions with a good driver is not an excessive speed; fast, yes, but not excessively so, in the right conditions.
"I am a man of fixed and unbending principles, the first of which is to be flexible at all times." - Everett Dirksen

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