Cars, speeding and safety .

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Speeding in a car

Poll ended at Tue Jun 09, 2020 8:43 am

1. It should never be allowed.
10
37%
2. Why not if the autoroutes empty.
16
59%
3. I have never broken the speed limit.
1
4%
 
Total votes: 27

landmannnn
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Re: Cars, speeding and safety .

Post by landmannnn »

Tom wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:59 am
Dad might let his son borrow his car but restrict it not to go above 70 mph, makes sense really and will keep insurance premiums lower.
If Volvo can do that today then surely it won't be long before manufacturers will be forced to build in maximum speed limiters for all new cars.
All cars sold in Japan are limited to 112 mph, so every car manufacturer could introduce that tomorrow.

In practice it would make almost zero difference to the road death figures, most accidents are caused by inattention, alcohol and not judging other car's road speed.

Spardo

Re: Cars, speeding and safety .

Post by Spardo »

landmannnn wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:20 am
Tom wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:59 am
Dad might let his son borrow his car but restrict it not to go above 70 mph, makes sense really and will keep insurance premiums lower.
If Volvo can do that today then surely it won't be long before manufacturers will be forced to build in maximum speed limiters for all new cars.
All cars sold in Japan are limited to 112 mph, so every car manufacturer could introduce that tomorrow.

In practice it would make almost zero difference to the road death figures, most accidents are caused by inattention, alcohol and not judging other car's road speed.
So why have heavy vehicles been limited to 90 for many years now in Europe, if that is the case?

The reason usually given is that they are heavier and any accident would be more calamitous. So why are buses, as heavy as rigid lorries, but with dozens of lives on board to protect, only limited to 100, not 90?

The answer is not logic, but prejudice. And before anyone misunderstands and accuses me of wanting higher lorry speeds, I don't, but I do want lower car speeds.

Le Démerdeur
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Re: Cars, speeding and safety .

Post by Le Démerdeur »

Lighter when laden?

Able to brake in a shorter distance when at maximum capacity?

When passengers are carried coach drivers are less likely to be surfing the net or sending messages?

I'm sure the last one was did not form part of the rationale all those years ago when the limits were established.

Spardo

Re: Cars, speeding and safety .

Post by Spardo »

Lighter when laden?
Not sure what you mean there LD, hardly anything I can think of is lighter when laden. :roll:
Able to brake in a shorter distance when at maximum capacity?
Again, unclear what you mean, few vehicles have a shorter stopping distances when at maximum capacity. :roll:
When passengers are carried coach drivers are less likely to be surfing the net or sending messages?
If you mean that coach drivers are less likely to be texting because they have more witnesses than car or lorry drivers, you may have a small point. A very small point though, as the vast majority of coach passengers cannot see what the driver is doing anyway. Perhaps the 2 in the front seats on the other side to him. :roll:

Stopping distances are mostly affected by weight. But not entirely, tyre width makes a difference, numbers of axles does too. An interesting experiment in France showed that a 25 metre long wagon and drawbar trailer running at 55 tonnes gross on 8 axles can stop in 9 metres less than a 14 metre artic at 40 tonnes on 5 axles. This is one reason why the log lorries with 6 axles are allowed to gross 44 tonnes.



My own comment BTW, is no. 12 in the list below the video. ;) :)

Le Démerdeur
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Re: Cars, speeding and safety .

Post by Le Démerdeur »

I was proposing/asking (there was a question mark) that a fully laden artic would be lighter than a coach with a full complement of passengers and luggage, i.e; both at gross weight and that the coach if lighter may have a shorter stopping distance.

Spardo

Re: Cars, speeding and safety .

Post by Spardo »

Le Démerdeur wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:40 pm
I was proposing/asking (there was a question mark) that a fully laden artic would be lighter than a coach with a full complement of passengers and luggage, i.e; both at gross weight and that the coach if lighter may have a shorter stopping distance.
You didn't make that clear but, why then are you comparing artics with rigid coaches? I was comparing like with like, rigids not artics.

But in any case I was comparing the number of people at risk in a coach with one person, perhaps, in a lorry. External damage to people would be equal in either case, and again I emphasise I am comparing rigid vehicles, but one carrying one person is limited to less than the other carrying 40 or 50.

As to stopping distances, a coach of with 2 or 3 axles would have no advantage over a lorry with similar.

Lorry GVWs are 2 axle 18T, 3 axle 26T, 4 axle 32T. Not an expert on buses but I see that Volvo publish an 88 seat double decker of 18T GVW on 2 axles. So the risk is even greater than I thought. :o

But the fact remains that there is no logic. Lorries are limited to 90 km/hr, buses to 100 km/hr, and cars not limited (physically) at all.

Le Démerdeur
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Re: Cars, speeding and safety .

Post by Le Démerdeur »

Fiar enough, its your domaine after all, I was simply proposing what might be the reasoning after you asked the question, not looking to win a debate.

I didn't mention the category of lorry in my one off response, it only crept in, wrongly as I can see in hindsight when you said you didn't understand the response, I was just thinking lorry vs coach, yes if I had read back through your question forensically I would have perhaps have appreciated the significance of the word "rigid"

exile
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Re: Cars, speeding and safety .

Post by exile »

The statistics for road deaths in cars (2017) seem to have no relationship to the maximum speed limit.

Germany 17.4 deaths per million inhabitants - no maximum speed limit on 30% of autoroutes: 130kph as maximum on a significant portion of the rest
France 26.5 deaths per million with 130kph max
Romania 41.3 deaths with a 130kph max
UK 12.4 with a theoretical 110kph if you can find a bit of road empty enough.

Clearly if you do have an accident, the faster you are going, the more likely it will end badly but there are other factors in place.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistic ... of_vehicle

Spardo

Re: Cars, speeding and safety .

Post by Spardo »

exile wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:29 pm
The statistics for road deaths in cars (2017) seem to have no relationship to the maximum speed limit.

Germany 17.4 deaths per million inhabitants - no maximum speed limit on 30% of autoroutes: 130kph as maximum on a significant portion of the rest
France 26.5 deaths per million with 130kph max
Romania 41.3 deaths with a 130kph max
UK 12.4 with a theoretical 110kph if you can find a bit of road empty enough.

Clearly if you do have an accident, the faster you are going, the more likely it will end badly but there are other factors in place.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistic ... of_vehicle
I see that is for cars, which are not physically limited by law in the EU (and elsewhere too I presume), and there is not much point in doing it for HGVs as they all are so limited.

But I wonder if there are any comparisons with jurisdictions where limiters are not used, the various states of the USA for instance, and others. It might, or might not, prove the worth of EU legislation.

Lapourtaider
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Re: Cars, speeding and safety .

Post by Lapourtaider »

Speeding, don't see the need for it and don't choose to do so. Have speeded in the past, including the fines and points for doing so. Use the speed limiter on my car as much as possible. Leave earlier, plan your time better. Leave speeding for the emergency services.

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