Rights after brexit - registration and certification

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Debra
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Rights after brexit - registration and certification

Post by Debra » Wed May 16, 2018 7:01 pm

An article on the difference between the declarative system we're under now (and which may continue) and the constitutive system preferred by the UK which seems to be emphasised more in the draft withdrawal agreement. There is a link to the British in Europe legal team's response to the draft agreement if you want to delve a bit further.

For those who aren't sure about applying for a permanent resident card even though entitled to one, note the explanation of how that decision may affect you in future.

http://www.remaininfrance.org/registrat ... dures.html
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mysty (Wed May 16, 2018 7:20 pm) • tohubohu (Wed May 16, 2018 9:16 pm) • exile (Wed May 16, 2018 11:08 pm)

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Re: Rights after brexit - registration and certification

Post by exile » Wed May 16, 2018 11:08 pm

Thank you for posting that Debra - informative and I highly recommend that other members do read the link in full.

For the time being I will be guided by the last sentence however.
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Debra (Thu May 17, 2018 1:13 am)

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Re: Rights after brexit - registration and certification

Post by lindal1000 » Wed May 16, 2018 11:58 pm

So have I understood this correctly.. if the EU and the UK adopt the non declaratory system of registration post brexit, those who already hold a cds or cdr won't have to do anything other than swap that card for a new one, whereas the rest of us will have to apply. I understand the concerns or problems that could arise as highlighted in the link but they could arise anyway even applying now couldn't they? I did look at the Perigeaux website and they seemed to suggest that you could apply at the sous prefectures which would certainly make life easier. Perigeaux is only open three mornings a week and the staff are about as helpful as a tank of sharks, even to French people.
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Kathyc (Thu May 17, 2018 9:24 am)

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Re: Rights after brexit - registration and certification

Post by Debra » Thu May 17, 2018 12:42 am

Yes, the way the withdrawal agreement is worded, we're only guaranteed a straight swap onto the new system if we already have a card. Maybe that's why the Ministry of the Interior are advising us to get one now? Don't know, but I know I feel safer following the advice. No, the same problems don't apply now because if we apply now it's under the existing declarative system.

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Re: Rights after brexit - registration and certification

Post by Debra » Thu May 17, 2018 1:02 am

We actually got a mention in Sajid Javid's reply to Guy V's letter re how things will work for EU Citizens in the UK. Some may be cynical about that but I feel happy about it since it seems a long time since anyone in the UK government expressed any concern about us.

I've been a bit miffed, personally, at all the criticism of the UK and how they ask for lots of documentation to support PR applications over there. OK the 85 page application form was way over the top, as was asking for details of every trip abroad since people lived there, but otherwise they seemed to be asking for the same documentation as France does, so how can the EU criticise the UK so much and make a big deal about them simplifying their system when it comes to applying for the new 'settled status' without also questioning whether EU member states are going to make similar adjustments for us?

The EU27 and the UK have agreed a reciprocal procedure but all the pressure seems to be on the UK and yet I'm not aware of any of the other countries specifying how they're going to handle their side of the agreement (how to register us and certify our rights) and it's about time they were asked about this.

Perhaps all our complaints to the British Embassy have made an impression and maybe Sajid David is just using that information to deflect but at the end of the day, the question does need to be asked. These are the parts of his letter that ask about us, with the link to the whole letter posted below:

'The UK Government is equally committed to the interests of UK nationals living and working in the EU, and we would welcome further details on how the administrative procedures will be enacted in other Member States. It is currently unclear what systems other EU Member States are creating to ensure the rights of UK nationals in their countries are protected after the end of the implementation period and we would welcome it if the European Parliament were also willing to focus attention on Member States’ plans. '

'As you would expect, the UK Government also cares very deeply about the reciprocal arrangements for UK nationals living in the EU27 Member States. We are,concerned that as yet we have seen little information about the practical arrangements for securing their rights under the Withdrawal Agreement. Is the European Parliament able to provide any reassurance about progress on equivalent arrangements for UK nationals? We are discussing this issue with the Commission and I would encourage the you to press for similar assurances to protect UK nationals. '

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... _FINAL.pdf

This may force Guy V to respond and actually look into what is being demanded of us and that can only be a good thing for the British in France because the procedures across France range from being fairly simple (though still not as simple as the upcoming UK system) to quite horrendously complicated. Hopefully he will not only look into it but encourage the EU27 to come up with the simple procedures that they have agreed so far in the draft withdrawal agreement too.

It's getting late in the day though so even though this might be hopeful of encouragement of development of a more simple procedure in future, I maintain my advice to apply now, just in case simplification doesn't happen in time.
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Doug (Thu May 17, 2018 8:12 am)

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Re: Rights after brexit - registration and certification

Post by lindal1000 » Thu May 17, 2018 9:37 am

I can't see it being such a big issue myself. Just my opinion, but there are many British people who won't qualify for CDR until well after brexit day and I really don't think the aim will be to send them all packing. I'm not even sure we would qualify as although We've been here 7 years we lived off savings for a few of them and so have had a very low income until recently. We might have a go at it early next year when my pension kicks in and we have a years worth of rental income to show for it. Citizenship might not be any more difficult and by November I'll be old enough to be exempt from the language test. :)

I'm more cynical than you about the UK government's concerns for us.
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Kathyc (Thu May 17, 2018 8:50 pm)

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Re: Rights after brexit - registration and certification

Post by Nomoss » Thu May 17, 2018 11:26 am

I don't think Brits in most other EU countries will have similar problems to those in France, where EU residents are (still) not obliged to fomally register their presence.

As the article says, the majority of Brits should already be registered in EU countries where this is already required. Any change for them post-Brexit can be achieved simply by continuing to recognise existing permits until they expire, and issuing new ones under existing rules for non-EU applicants, as will probably happen in France.

It is also likely that countries which do not have a compulsory system in place for registration do not have a large British expat population, so no big logistical problems for them either..

The biggest problem I see is for Brits who have arrived recently, or have been living "under the radar". I am aware of a few of the latter both here and in Spain, but they are probably practiced enough by now in ducking and diving to survive. :D

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Re: Rights after brexit - registration and certification

Post by mysty » Thu May 17, 2018 12:18 pm

When we first came here I had no income so was technically illegal. I did go to the prefecture but got chased.
We will be taking out C S when she comes back just to be on the safe side. From What I read this morning the UK will not be leaving anything anytime soon that's the Customs union or the single market.
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Re: Rights after brexit - registration and certification

Post by Nomoss » Thu May 17, 2018 8:19 pm

mysty1 wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 12:18 pm
When we first came here I had no income so was technically illegal. I did go to the prefecture but got chased.
We will be taking out C S when she comes back just to be on the safe side. From What I read this morning the UK will not be leaving anything anytime soon that's the Customs union or the single market.
People seem to be drifting gradually to my side of the fence :D

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