UK BANK INTEREST

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Veem
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Re: UK BANK INTEREST

Post by Veem »

Phew. Then I'll just carry on ignoring it, apart from filling out another 3019.

Thank you once more elsie.

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Re: UK BANK INTEREST

Post by Mangetout »

Many years ago when we had an ISA I didn't declare it foolishly because I thought it was tax free. It then caught up with the French tax office and they went back 3 years, recalculated everything, including house tax, the lot. Cost us 10k in back tax and fines. So be sure what you're doing.

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Re: UK BANK INTEREST

Post by Veem »

Mangetout wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 10:55 pm
Many years ago when we had an ISA I didn't declare it foolishly because I thought it was tax free. It then caught up with the French tax office and they went back 3 years, recalculated everything, including house tax, the lot. Cost us 10k in back tax and fines. So be sure what you're doing.
Is putting details of the ISA on a 3019 liable to get me into similar trouble? I've never taken any income from the ISA.

I woke in the night and suddenly realised I probably should also be filling in a 3019 for a few Standard Life shares that I have. I have been declaring the dividends from that but not from the start as I didn't realise I had to. The dividend doesn't amount to a vast sum and the authorities have not queried my previous non-declaration.......... yet. :?

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Re: UK BANK INTEREST

Post by Mangetout »

Veem wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 8:50 am
Mangetout wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 10:55 pm
Many years ago when we had an ISA I didn't declare it foolishly because I thought it was tax free. It then caught up with the French tax office and they went back 3 years, recalculated everything, including house tax, the lot. Cost us 10k in back tax and fines. So be sure what you're doing.
Is putting details of the ISA on a 3019 liable to get me into similar trouble? I've never taken any income from the ISA.

I woke in the night and suddenly realised I probably should also be filling in a 3019 for a few Standard Life shares that I have. I have been declaring the dividends from that but not from the start as I didn't realise I had to. The dividend doesn't amount to a vast sum and the authorities have not queried my previous non-declaration.......... yet. :?
I presume your ISA accrues interest, in which case it needs to be declared regardless of whether you touch the money. It's revenue.

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Re: UK BANK INTEREST

Post by elsie »

On 3916 I believe basically you should declare any non-French account which holds money and which you, in some way, control putting money in and taking money out. That includes accounts with zero balance and dormant accounts.

So, besides bank/building society, etc current and savings accounts, you should declare premium bonds, life insurance, Irish/Luxembourg etc. assurance vie, ISA, private pension funds where you can vary the amount taken, life pension/AVC pension accounts, money transfer accounts e.g. Transferwise/Moneycorp, neo-banks, e.g Monzo and Revolut. That isn't comprehensive, but they are accounts I'm familiar with.

If you have given a financial institution your French address, a French social security/tax number or even a UK social security number where a UK and French address can be associated in some way, it is quite possible that organisation will report on the annual details of the account to the French tax office.

You don't need to declare direct share holdings but if you have a stockbroker account you need to declare that. You do not need to declare PayPal accounts if the transactions are less than 10K€/year if linked to a French bank account

I've always worked on the better safe than sorry principle, but I've nothing to hide as I'm not concerned about the tax office knowing.

As Mangetout has pointed out a failure to report can be very expensive.

From the English version of the French tax web site:
https://www.impots.gouv.fr/portail/inte ... icies-held

Which accounts are concerned ?
All bank accounts and life insurance policies opened, used or closed abroad during the year.
This includes accounts opened with banks, investment service providers, public administrations or individuals such as notaries or money changers that receive deposits in securities, shares or cash on a regular basis.
It also includes life insurance policies taken out with insurance companies and similar institutions.
It does not, however, concern accounts used to make payments for online purchases or deposits concerning sales of goods that total less than €10,000 a year for all accounts taken together, where such accounts that were used for transactions are backed by one or more accounts opened in France.

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Re: UK BANK INTEREST

Post by Pale Ale »

This gets stressful every year when it is tax form time. I have declared all income from ISAs, share dividends and bank interest every year, so yes Veem I think that you should have declared any income from whatever source it came from in the UK.

My problem revolves around the 2074 form, which is used to declare capital gains/losses. As posted in a thread that I started I have never used a 2074 form to declare any gains/losses, under instruction from an accountant that I used in the beginning, and I have had no problems from the authorities accepting my declaration to date. As stated previously the electronic form is flagging up that I need to use a 2074 because I am declaring a gain this year. Again, as previously stated I have been using any declared losses to offset any gains and only declaring the losses as they outweighed my gains, but this year my gains outweigh my losses.

As I see it I have a two options: if the system accepts my declaration when I hit the send button without a 2074 attached I can hope that the authorities accept my declaration, as they have for the past 11 years. Or I can fill in a 2074 (goodness knows how) showing the workings for the last 10 years, but will this open a can of worms with the authorities? because I have not used the form previously.

It looks as though the 2074CMV form covers just share dealing gains/losses, can anyone confirm this please.

I appreciate that the use of a 2074 form is not mainstream for most Brits declaring their income, so if anybody can shed any light as to how they have dealt with it in the past, it would be most appreciated. If not I will pay for advice from an 'expert' although having done this in the past, this has not worked out too well.
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Re: UK BANK INTEREST

Post by Veem »

Thank you for your comments Pale Ale. As you say, it's a very stressful time of year every year, but this time clearly more so .........

I apologise if I have confused anyone by my constant reference to a form 3019. I should have written 3916.

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Re: UK BANK INTEREST

Post by elsie »

You probably are correct in needing to declare the interest on cash ISAs as I assume that is money permanently added to the account.

But I don't see how you can declare the changes due to interest/stock market changes for a stocks & shares ISAs as you could need to start claiming losses in some years.

Along with various other financial products which I knew might be problematic when I moved to France, I sold all my stocks & shares ISAs (and never had a cash ISA) before I moving in 2002 so don't have current knowledge of what is on offer or how they operate.

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Re: UK BANK INTEREST

Post by suein56 »

Pale Ale wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 11:38 am
This gets stressful every year when it is tax form time.

I appreciate that the use of a 2074 form is not mainstream for most Brits declaring their income, so if anybody can shed any light as to how they have dealt with it in the past, it would be most appreciated. If not I will pay for advice from an 'expert' although having done this in the past, this has not worked out too well.
Intermittently I have to declare gains made by OH when he sells some UK investments .. I have managed to muddle through it and only made a mistake once, apparently. Which was sorted out by a very nice young man when I visited the tax office.
One year, when the online 2074 form changed I got in a real mess so I telephoned our tax office and a charming young lady sorted me out.
I approach the form with fear and trepidation each time OH sells some shares-type investments .. I am seriously thinking of making him fill in that part of the declaration himself.

Apologies as I would not even think of explaining what I have done in the past to someone else .. in case it was wrong.
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Re: UK BANK INTEREST

Post by Veem »

elsie wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 12:44 pm
You probably are correct in needing to declare the interest on cash ISAs as I assume that is money permanently added to the account.

But I don't see how you can declare the changes due to interest/stock market changes for a stocks & shares ISAs as you could need to start claiming losses in some years.

Along with various other financial products which I knew might be problematic when I moved to France, I sold all my stocks & shares ISAs (and never had a cash ISA) before I moving in 2002 so don't have current knowledge of what is on offer or how they operate.
This morning I have clarified with the UK holding company that my ISA is a 'stocks and shares individual savings account' not a cash ISA. As you inferred, the value may be falling rapidly by the minute just now. So I intend to declare the ISA on 3916 and trust that the authorities will be in touch if they need further information.

Does anyone know the French equivalent for 'stocks and shares individual savings account'?

Thanks to all who are being so helpful. As you will have gathered, I am a finance numpty.

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