Tax forms

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suein56
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Re: Tax forms

Post by suein56 » Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:05 pm

bubbles1 wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:54 pm
elsie wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:00 pm
This year everyone with a Revenu Fiscal de Référence de 2016 greater than 15 000€ has to declare online.
Totally incorrect. It says "if your income is over 15,000 euros AND YOUR PRINCIPLE RESIDENCE HAS INTERNET ACCESS you can declare on line".
Bubbles you are interpreting the words wrongly .. not you can declare, but you must declare, if at all possible ..
and if you cannot then there are computers with internet access available ..

From the vos droits site :
La télé-déclaration d'impôts 2018 en ligne sur internet est obligatoire pour une large partie des contribuables, sous peine d'amende. Et d'ici 2019, la télédéclaration des revenus en ligne deviendra une obligation pour tous les contribuables disposant d'une connexion internet.
Computing can bring you closer to others - mentally if not physically

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Re: Tax forms

Post by elsie » Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:07 pm

bubbles1 wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:54 pm
elsie wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:00 pm
Aardvark wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:30 pm
I have been submitting my tax info for years and it seems like the forms arrive later each year. The last two years one arrives but the other doesn't so I have to go into town and queue up for one. It is such a headache finding the correct form online to download, and if I find it I worry that they will reject it because I only have a monochrome printer. I briefly dallied with the idea of doing an online declaration but couldn't get my head around the translations. Getting it wrong could be costly.
Have the forms started arriving in the post yet? I think the deadline is some time in May. :?


This year everyone with a Revenu Fiscal de Référence de 2016 greater than 15 000€ has to declare online.

Totally incorrect. It says "if your income is over 15,000 euros AND YOUR PRINCIPLE RESIDENCE HAS INTERNET ACCESS you can declare on line".

No, it does not say can declare, it says must declare. It is obligatory.

Généralisation de la déclaration en ligne
En 2018, si votre revenu fiscal de référence de 2016 est supérieur à 15 000 € et que votre résidence principale est équipée d'un accès à internet, vous devez déclarer vos revenus 2017 en ligne. https://www.impots.gouv.fr/portail/node/4124

Vous êtes concerné par l'obligation de déclarer en ligne dès cette année si :
Votre revenu fiscal de référence (RFR) indiqué sur votre avis d'impôt reçu en 2017 (sur vos revenus de 2016) est supérieur à 15 000 euros ;
Votre résidence principale est équipée d'un accès à Internet. http://tinyurl.com/yb98efll
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Kathyc (Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:19 pm)

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Re: Tax forms

Post by Le Démerdeur » Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:36 pm

It will be as respected and enforced as the alchohol testers.

If they send you the tax forms then most people would naturally just fill them out and return them.

Just checked and my RFR for 2016 was €300 under the plafond.

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Re: Tax forms

Post by elsie » Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:41 pm

bubbles1 wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:43 pm
elsie wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:30 am
see https://droit-finances.commentcamarche. ... t-en-ligne There is a link on that page but it is not live yet. The forms won't be available until the end of April.

You have to declare your world-wide income, even if it has already been taxed elsewhere (but you will get a credit for that)

You will also need form 3196 to declare your non-french bank and savings accounts (including life insurance and pensions, etc)
My understanding is that the 3196 is for non-french bank/building society accounts. I just declare my pensions in the "overseas box on the form.

Your have not confirmed your understanding that form 3196 is only for non-french bank/building society accounts is totally incorrect.

As I pointed out earlier it has a much wider scope.

I would suggest a cautionary approach to declaring accounts even where you are not sure (since it does not include monetary amounts in accounts) given the vagueness of the description and the possibility of a fine of 1500€ or more. Even pages 269-70 of the DÉCLARATION DES REVENUS 2017 Brochure pratique 2018 http://bit.ly/2r4kCvh do not give much more clarification.

(don't forget you should check 8UU on 2042 if you submit a 3916)

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Re: Tax forms

Post by elsie » Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:55 pm

Chancer wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:36 pm
It will be as respected and enforced as the alchohol testers.

If they send you the tax forms then most people would naturally just fill them out and return them.

Just checked and my RFR for 2016 was €300 under the plafond.
I doubt it. I don't think they will be sending out forms next year and possibly not even putting them online to download. So it could mean a visit to the tax office to get the forms and an interview to determine why you aren't completing online.

In the same way there has just been press publicity on the number of fines for not respecting the Crit'Air in Paris, I'm sure there will be something similar in knuckle-rapping and publicity later this year for those who have not respected the obligation.

In future years they could easily start to increase the level of the fines, with a higher minimum fine and an added percentage of tax due.

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Re: Tax forms

Post by DominicBest » Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:04 am

I can’t understand the reluctance to submit the tax forms online. It is very straightforward and quick to do. So much better than dealing with all those bits of paper then having to post them.

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Re: Tax forms

Post by bubbles1 » Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:09 pm

suein56 wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:05 pm
bubbles1 wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:54 pm
elsie wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:00 pm
This year everyone with a Revenu Fiscal de Référence de 2016 greater than 15 000€ has to declare online.
Totally incorrect. It says "if your income is over 15,000 euros AND YOUR PRINCIPLE RESIDENCE HAS INTERNET ACCESS you can declare on line".
Bubbles you are interpreting the words wrongly .. not you can declare, but you must declare, if at all possible ..
and if you cannot then there are computers with internet access available ..

From the vos droits site :
La télé-déclaration d'impôts 2018 en ligne sur internet est obligatoire pour une large partie des contribuables, sous peine d'amende. Et d'ici 2019, la télédéclaration des revenus en ligne deviendra une obligation pour tous les contribuables disposant d'une connexion internet.
First part of my information sheet from FTO says this:-

"If your 2016 tax return is greater than 15,000 euros and your main residence has an internet access your income tax return must be made via the internet. However, if you feel that you are unable to do so, you can continue to use a paper declaration"

Would you care to explain which "words I have interpreted wrongly". French OH also says it is not "must" declare this year. Me think it is not I who have got it a bit wrong ;)

ELSIE - the above also refers to your incorrect post.
WE CAN ALL SEE THE STARS BUT ONLY SOME OF US SEE THE LIGHT :good:

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Re: Tax forms

Post by Le Démerdeur » Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:28 pm

You were correct Bubbles, something about this time of year and perhaps the angst some have interpreting and completing their declarations always brings out similar reactions.

The get out of jail free clause you quite correctly cite is why I liken it to the alcotester law that no longer has a fine.

I reckon those who have submitted paper returns will continue to recieve them by La Poste.
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bubbles1 (Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:34 pm)

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Re: Tax forms

Post by bubbles1 » Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:36 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol:
WE CAN ALL SEE THE STARS BUT ONLY SOME OF US SEE THE LIGHT :good:

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Re: Tax forms

Post by elsie » Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:36 pm

bubbles1 wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:09 pm
suein56 wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:05 pm
bubbles1 wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:54 pm


Totally incorrect. It says "if your income is over 15,000 euros AND YOUR PRINCIPLE RESIDENCE HAS INTERNET ACCESS you can declare on line".
Bubbles you are interpreting the words wrongly .. not you can declare, but you must declare, if at all possible ..
and if you cannot then there are computers with internet access available ..

From the vos droits site :
La télé-déclaration d'impôts 2018 en ligne sur internet est obligatoire pour une large partie des contribuables, sous peine d'amende. Et d'ici 2019, la télédéclaration des revenus en ligne deviendra une obligation pour tous les contribuables disposant d'une connexion internet.
First part of my information sheet from FTO says this:-

"If your 2016 tax return is greater than 15,000 euros and your main residence has an internet access your income tax return must be made via the internet. However, if you feel that you are unable to do so, you can continue to use a paper declaration"

Would you care to explain which "words I have interpreted wrongly". French OH also says it is not "must" declare this year. Me think it is not I who have got it a bit wrong ;)

ELSIE - the above also refers to your incorrect post.

I do not understand why you do not know what "obligatoire" means. How do you interpret it?

Rather than just reading the headlines on the first page of the document I think you were quoting from and then translating, did you bother to read page two which includes:
Suis-je concerné par l'obligation de déclarer en ligne cette année?
Si votre revenu fiscal de référence (RFR) de 2016 est supérieur à 15 000 euros et que votre résidence principale est équipée cl'un accès à internet, votre déclaration cle revenus doit être réalisée par internet. Si vous estimez ne pas être en mesure de déclarer en ligne, vous pouvez continuer à utiliser une déclaration papier.
En 2019, tous les usagers seront concernés quel que soit leur montant de RFR de 2017.

Even in your translation you said "must be made via the internet".

You might read all of https://droit-finances.commentcamarche. ... bligatoire especially including the section entitled Dispense.
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