Current draw

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chrisell
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Re: Current draw

Post by chrisell » Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:33 pm

The two pin sockets with a switch - they're old - they could be anything - helpful...... They were designed to be light switches and power points yes. It doesn't mean that;s how they've been wired. I had three rooms of them and only one fed a light. Pre modern normes people did have light/power circuits combined. Because there's no earth pin they often mean there's no earth wire so you'll end up re wiring those rooms.

Why more Neutrals - who knows - I had 8 MCBs - 26 Neutrals. With the old single pole fuses/MCBs its a nightmare working out which Neutral belongs to what especially with single cables because you can't just trace back to a single 3 core cable - so my guess if people just left them as its too much like hard work and what harm does a Neutral cable do (it still hurts is the answer).

I cheated when it came to re wiring to save having to work out Neutrals. My first step was to fit a new tableau with RCD. I then connected the new tableau to the EDF incomer and fed the old tableau from one RCD - at least my 8 dodgy circuits had RCD protection and I could properly isolate old circuits (plus it saves those erm the cables too short now I've moved the box). Then given I was re wiring everywhere but the cellar I just fed new circuits into the new tableau and slowly removed the old circuits. I did top down - so after a year I could cut everything that went "up" - after that I only had 4 live circuits and my Neutral count dropped to 6 so chasing down neutrals became much simpler. Its not ideal way to work - but its better than what I started with and worked for me.


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JohnnyD (Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:16 pm)

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Re: Current draw

Post by JohnnyD » Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:28 pm

Thanks to both of you for replies, I do recall seeing what I judged as junction boxes after stripping off all the wallpaper in the house, but did not delve into them then as the last thing I wanted was to lose power that fortnight, 2 of them I think.

If I do find multiple neutrals relating to one live, is it ok to put those neutrals on the output of that associated live breaker?

Thanks for the Earth info also Robert, I will look for a rod/spike next month.

JD

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just a Frenchie
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Re: Current draw

Post by just a Frenchie » Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:56 pm

JohnnyD wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:28 pm

If I do find multiple neutrals relating to one live, is it ok to put those neutrals on the output of that associated live breaker?

JD
No problem as long as you are sure that these 2 Neutrals correspond to the same points of use as the Link and only them.
I don't think that the original installer would have deliberately mixed the Neutrals. But, later, an opportunistic and ignorant Jack of all Trades could have connected the Link of a socket to a fuse and, for any reason, connected its Neutral to the one of another socket which life is connected to another fuse... I've seen many such stupid things when renovating (including my former house). In case of a problem, it leads to endless investigations. This is why I warned you !
The key things are to make clear drawings, label all the wires (in the breakers panel and junction boxes) and never cut any corner. You have to ban the verbs 'assume' and 'guess' of your vocabulary ... :D
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Re: Current draw

Post by JohnnyD » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:10 pm

Thanks for the info again......

Can someone recommend good back boxes from this selection, my French is not great at the moment and struggling to understand the small detail, I would like some good backbones for 1) plaster/brick, and 2) plasterboard, also being circular rather than UK square, is there a tool to 'drill' out the circular hole required ?

Also some socket recommendations would be nice, ie easy to connect and room enough for spare cable etc......

I will order some 100M drums of singles 2.5 and 1.5 for the new bits I do, can I check, can I surface mount that bendy conduit into surface mount sockets, or do I need to use stiff plastic conduit, this is for hidden stuff under the kitchen units for cooker etc.....

Is there a minimum height of sockets from floor in France? and/or exterior wall mounting issues?

Here is the link

https://www.leroymerlin.fr/v3/p/produit ... 1308218877

LM.seems cheap for electrical stuff, anything cheaper that delivers?

Thanks again

JD

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Re: Current draw

Post by JohnnyD » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:19 pm

chrisell wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:33 pm

I cheated when it came to re wiring to save having to work out Neutrals. My first step was to fit a new tableau with RCD. I then connected the new tableau to the EDF incomer and fed the old tableau from one RCD
.
I guess I could do that also given I have purchased a two range box, feed the old box form the output of one RCD, and my new stuff from the other, then slowly move across ?

JD

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Re: Current draw

Post by just a Frenchie » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:36 pm

JohnnyD wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:10 pm
Thanks for the info again......

Can someone recommend good back boxes from this selection, my French is not great at the moment and struggling to understand the small detail, I would like some good backbones for 1) plaster/brick, and 2) plasterboard, also being circular rather than UK square, is there a tool to 'drill' out the circular hole required ?

Also some socket recommendations would be nice, ie easy to connect and room enough for spare cable etc......

I will order some 100M drums of singles 2.5 and 1.5 for the new bits I do, can I check, can I surface mount that bendy conduit into surface mount sockets, or do I need to use stiff plastic conduit, this is for hidden stuff under the kitchen units for cooker etc.....

Is there a minimum height of sockets from floor in France? and/or exterior wall mounting issues?

Here is the link

https://www.leroymerlin.fr/v3/p/produit ... 1308218877

LM.seems cheap for electrical stuff, anything cheaper that delivers?

Thanks again

JD
For plasterboard:

In LM, better to buy Legrand boxes which are more expensive but good quality and much easier to fit

On line, I generally buy https://www.bis-electric.com/fourniture ... ble-1.html almost as good as legrand but cheaper and they deliver quickly.

For being at ease inside, go for deep boxes if the thickness of the partition tolerates (if R48/M48 structure : 48+13 = 61 mm max)
You can use any cheap 'scie-cloche' (hole saw) but make sure that the diameter matches exactly the one of the boxes as they don't tolerate any clearance . Forget the stanley knife for the circular holes, only use one for joining the circular holes side by side of the double boxes . The hole saw can be used on a battery drill

For brick :

Any box for 'matériaux pleins' (see bis electric as well) sealed with plaster.

For drilling, use a 'trépan' on a hammerdrill : https://www.amazon.fr/Schlagebohrkrone- ... 4024373745
(80 because you need some clearance for sealing)

Sockets :

Legrand is very good but expensive again.

For all my projects: bis electric again (I use their trade Simon) quite good and cheaper. If you surface mount, they sell 'boitier saillie' to install 1, 2 or 3 sockets

For the height : http://www.pke-electricite.fr/wp-conten ... 15-100.pdf (see page 16) - I usually put them at 25 cm (less to lean) except wet rooms : bathroom, laundry...

Conduits :

To be in plasterboard or sealed, you need ICTA tubes which are flexible (3 x 1.5 in 16 mm and 3 x 2.5 in 20 mm)

To be surface mounted , you can use rigid round tube IRL +elbows in hidden places, or, if it shows : 'goulotte' from bis electric or anywhere

Exterior wiring :

Wires are now forbidden : you have to use cable instead (U1000 R2V)

In short : Think bis electric IMO
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JohnnyD (Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:56 pm)
You learn from your mistakes but it's much quicker and cheaper to learn from the mistakes of other people ! :D

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RobertArthur
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Re: Current draw

Post by RobertArthur » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:45 am

@ JohnnyD:

Measure twice, buy once: you're sure that there is no external earth cable outside? A visual inspection is something to do, measuring is more difficult, special meter needed. What to look for, a quick draft, just before closing time of the FrenchEntree forum. Look inside or outside for a so called barette de mesure.

Concluding remark, about unequal start. When I was much younger than today, about nine, my mother kindly proposed me to take a course in French. As a child she was supposed to speak French at the dinner table. My grandmother's maiden name was Ducrocq, family roots going back to the French Huguenots. So I do realize it is a pretty complicated language, but very helpful for everyday life. Including a crash course in French electrics. So allow me to ask your attention once again for this book and a key to crack the code of the French language Enigma machine.

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Re: Current draw

Post by just a Frenchie » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:30 am

RobertArthur wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:45 am
@ JohnnyD:

Measure twice, buy once: you're sure that there is no earth outside? A visual inspection is something to do, measuring is more difficult, special meter needed. What to look for, a quick draft, just before closing time of the FrenchEntree forum. Look inside or outside for a so called barette de mesure.

Concluding remark, about unequal start. When I was much younger than today, about nine, my mother kindly proposed me to take a course in French. As a child she was supposed to speak French at the dinner table. My grandmother's maiden name was Ducrocq, family roots going back to the French Huguenots. So I do realize it is a pretty complicated language, but very helpful for everyday life. Including a crash course in French electrics. So allow me to ask your attention once again for this book and a key to crack the code of the French language Enigma machine.
French language Enigma machine : Is it the one stolen from a French fauty submarine like they did to a U-Boot during WWII ?
For earths, I use a CATOHM: very efficient and handy, but quite expensive.
It's true that earth poles can be hidden ... See what I did in a house I'm renovating :
terre 1.gif
terre 2.gif
I had to put 2 poles in parrallel because of the nature of the earth (clay)
Johnny: sometimes, in old installations, they used to use the water pipe (lead or copper) as an earth. Banned now for years as the main pipe comming from the street is plastic, but you can still find that in old buildings. And it could be anywhere in the pipework ! To be changed for a proper earth, obviously ! :D
You learn from your mistakes but it's much quicker and cheaper to learn from the mistakes of other people ! :D

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Re: Current draw

Post by Le-Dolly » Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:47 pm

Earth spikes (2mt min) are fine when the local soil warrants it. A much better way is to dig a good trench and lay a coil of 25mm² naked copper within it, with, should you wish it, a spike at the end of the copper.
Le-Dolly ( . )( . ) www.pink-electrique.fr

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Re: Current draw

Post by JohnnyD » Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:51 pm

Many thanks for all the replies, its really really helpful to me, Robert I don't mean I couldn't see an earth rod, but more I wasn't looking for one so don't know if one exists yet.......Back in Feb

Should I open a Pro account at BIS, are there any other advantages apart from free delivery for a month or so on orders over 150 Euros. ? Can I open a Pro account?

I will digest the posts later tonight, and sure I will have more questions LoL

Thanks

JD

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