Anyone watch the Ch 4 Tory leader debate?

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SW31girl
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Re: Anyone watch the Ch 4 Tory leader debate?

Post by SW31girl »

I think that’s what is finally motivating Labour to change its stance to supporting remain although it’s leader is still very reluctant to do so. Labour are now realising that they are losing voters in significant volumes to the Liberal Democrat’s.

As usual, it’s nothing to do with the good of the country but, like the conservatives, it’s the good of the party that matters to them most!

In ancient times cats were worshipped as gods; they have not forgotten this - Terry Pratchett

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Re: Anyone watch the Ch 4 Tory leader debate?

Post by rabbit »

Rory Stewart seemed to me to be the only candidate with integrity. All of them have two objectives 1. To be PM and 2. If not to get a good job so musn't p*ss on other contenders. Rory Stewarts approach was credible, but now he is gone. I would vote remain again but if we have to have Brexit has anyone explained what is wrong with the Withdrawal Agreement? All I have read is that "it keeps the UK too closely tied to the EU and it is not what we voted for" but no substance save for the Irish backstop

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Re: Anyone watch the Ch 4 Tory leader debate?

Post by Sidandus »

SW31girl wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:57 am
I think that’s what is finally motivating Labour to change its stance to supporting remain although it’s leader is still very reluctant to do so. Labour are now realising that they are losing voters in significant volumes to the Liberal Democrat’s.

As usual, it’s nothing to do with the good of the country but, like the conservatives, it’s the good of the party that matters to them most!
And that’s exactly why I wouldn’t trust JC enough to vote Labour in the next election. Watching journalists trying to pin him down to a clear explanation on Labour’s Brexit policy is like watching someone trying to hold water in their hands - they can’t. He squirms this way and that in attempts to not commit himself. JC is very, very careful in his choice of words and if you listen to what he is really saying, and how carefully he is expressing it, you hear all the unspoken caveats he doesn’t want to be explicit about because they undermine his spoken words ie he’s very, very devious and quite clearly would find ways of not delivering his Remain/Referendum promises so that he can still leave the EU albeit with a very soft Brexit.

Ally

Re: Anyone watch the Ch 4 Tory leader debate?

Post by Ally »

Every one of them is an actor. Stewart just varied his act to be seen to be different. I repeat, if he was a decent character he would not have joined the conservative party and progressed so rapidly within it. A wolf in sheep's clothing.

Voted 8 times against laws promoting human rights and equality.
Voted 4 times for sending troops to war.
Voted against Iraq war investigation.
Voted twice against the military covenant, ie, treating service personnel and the families fairly.
Voted 57 times against further EU integration. 57.
Voted 18 times against EU membership.
Voted 15 times against EU nationals being allowed to remain in the UK.
15 times for a VAT rise
6 times against financial aid to help youngsters into work.
2 times against financial support for 16 - 19 year olds.
4 times for university tuition fees
10 times for tax cuts for the wealthy
9 times against a banker's bonus tax
6 times for retention of data
3 times for mass surveillance
9 times against climate change measures.
2 times against regulation of the fracking industry.
7 times against gambling legislation.
2 times for PO privatisation.
7 times for restricting legal aid.

Rory is a Tory.

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Re: Anyone watch the Ch 4 Tory leader debate?

Post by Sidandus »

rabbit wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:23 am
but if we have to have Brexit has anyone explained what is wrong with the Withdrawal Agreement? All I have read is that "it keeps the UK too closely tied to the EU and it is not what we voted for" but no substance save for the Irish backstop
And that was exactly what RS was saying. His idea of putting the WD agreement to a Peoples’ Group was on the basis that once they went through the Deal and saw it was not tying the UK to the EU but just allowing the UK and EU to move onto the nitty gritty parts eg the trade deal, whilst protecting the Irish border, they would realise ratifying it was the only sensible way forward. And if the People’s Group accepted it, it would be difficult for MPs not to.

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Re: Anyone watch the Ch 4 Tory leader debate?

Post by Sidandus »

@Ally. I’m not defending RS’s voting history. However, he is not alone on voting against greater EU ties. On the Today programme this morning Mark Rutte spoke about how the EU has been moving away from ever greater EU involvement because UK and other EU countries did not want it, so that now EU legislators are complaining they don’t have enough work to do.

RS voted for UK to remain in the Customs Union.

RS has voted against increasing benefits and support for failed asylum seekers. I agree with that. I used to represent the HO in Asylum & Immigration courts. Believe me when I say asylum seekers get many chances to put their case. If they’ve failed to prove their claim, they really aren’t asylum seekers (the level of proof is balance of probability so low in any event) and are usually economic migrants. They should therefore leave the UK and so the UK should not be responsible for housing and feeding them.

He voted to increase the level of income at which one starts paying tax.

He explained that climate change needs to be tackled, but that the funds available should go to Social Services and Education in the first instance.

I agree he is ultimately a Tory, but he’s far less dangerous than Corbin and BJ. He also seems to genuinely want a better UK.


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Re: Anyone watch the Ch 4 Tory leader debate?

Post by FrenchForumSurvivor »

And while she is normally bound by historical convention, what if the Queen says no?
"I am a man of fixed and unbending principles, the first of which is to be flexible at all times." - Everett Dirksen

alittlebitmorefrench

Re: Anyone watch the Ch 4 Tory leader debate?

Post by alittlebitmorefrench »

Ally wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:55 am
Every one of them is an actor. Stewart just varied his act to be seen to be different. I repeat, if he was a decent character he would not have joined the conservative party and progressed so rapidly within it. A wolf in sheep's clothing.

Voted 8 times against laws promoting human rights and equality.
Voted 4 times for sending troops to war.
Voted against Iraq war investigation.
Voted twice against the military covenant, ie, treating service personnel and the families fairly.
Voted 57 times against further EU integration. 57.
Voted 18 times against EU membership.
Voted 15 times against EU nationals being allowed to remain in the UK.
15 times for a VAT rise
6 times against financial aid to help youngsters into work.
2 times against financial support for 16 - 19 year olds.
4 times for university tuition fees
10 times for tax cuts for the wealthy
9 times against a banker's bonus tax
6 times for retention of data
3 times for mass surveillance
9 times against climate change measures.
2 times against regulation of the fracking industry.
7 times against gambling legislation.
2 times for PO privatisation.
7 times for restricting legal aid.

Rory is a Tory.
I like that post :good:

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Re: Anyone watch the Ch 4 Tory leader debate?

Post by Sidandus »

And the Brexiteers, who want the UK out of the EU in part because they feel UK is being controlled by EU unelected officials, seem positively ecstatic that our new PM will be unelected by the electorate - oh the irony.

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