carte de sejour application

A place to post factual information so people can quickly find any important information that they might need. Experiences of getting a carte de sejour or residency etc.
- NOT FOR GENERAL CHAT
Post Reply
Plog
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:29 am
Has thanked: 81 times
Been thanked: 153 times

Re: carte de sejour application

Post by Plog » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:36 pm

DominicBest wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:24 pm
I’m not sure that Carte Vitale usage paints much of a picture for some people. All mine would do would be to show that I’d been in France a handful of times in the past six years. I was amazed to see how a bank statement from a random month clearly showed what I was doing and where I was doing it. Almost as clear as a photo.
Yep, If you talk to anyone who has been investigated by UK HMRC regarding whether they are resident or not in the UK for tax purposes ( not happened to me guv, but I know a few who have been through the wringer) you'll find out that the authorities place a lot emphasis on bank statements, and especially look for transactions where a debit card was used (ATMs, fuel purchases, general shopping..)

User avatar
FrenchForumSurvivor
Posts: 2720
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:24 pm
Location: Penn ar bed (29)
Has thanked: 480 times
Been thanked: 551 times

Re: carte de sejour application

Post by FrenchForumSurvivor » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:02 am

Plog wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:36 pm
DominicBest wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:24 pm
I’m not sure that Carte Vitale usage paints much of a picture for some people. All mine would do would be to show that I’d been in France a handful of times in the past six years. I was amazed to see how a bank statement from a random month clearly showed what I was doing and where I was doing it. Almost as clear as a photo.
Yep, If you talk to anyone who has been investigated by UK HMRC regarding whether they are resident or not in the UK for tax purposes ( not happened to me guv, but I know a few who have been through the wringer) you'll find out that the authorities place a lot emphasis on bank statements, and especially look for transactions where a debit card was used (ATMs, fuel purchases, general shopping..)
To be strictly correct, all a bank statement can show is how the card relating to the account was used, not who was using it.
"I am a man of fixed and unbending principles, the first of which is to be flexible at all times." - Everett Dirksen

folleauvent
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:13 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: carte de sejour application

Post by folleauvent » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:42 am

FrenchForumSurvivor wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:02 am
Plog wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:36 pm
DominicBest wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:24 pm
I’m not sure that Carte Vitale usage paints much of a picture for some people. All mine would do would be to show that I’d been in France a handful of times in the past six years. I was amazed to see how a bank statement from a random month clearly showed what I was doing and where I was doing it. Almost as clear as a photo.
Yep, If you talk to anyone who has been investigated by UK HMRC regarding whether they are resident or not in the UK for tax purposes ( not happened to me guv, but I know a few who have been through the wringer) you'll find out that the authorities place a lot emphasis on bank statements, and especially look for transactions where a debit card was used (ATMs, fuel purchases, general shopping..)
To be strictly correct, all a bank statement can show is how the card relating to the account was used, not who was using it.
It also shows where a card was not used.
If you say you were in a particular country all year but you don't have a statement showing you regularly withdrew cash, bought groceries, bought fuel etc in that country, then either you weren't there or you were living on fresh air or you were earning on the black and bypassing the bank altogether.
The authorities are not daft. Unfortunately.

User avatar
Simonflys
Posts: 932
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:15 pm
Location: Ariège Pyrénées (09)
Has thanked: 505 times
Been thanked: 345 times

Re: carte de sejour application

Post by Simonflys » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:06 am

It's simply about establishing, not proving, your centre of commercial activity. The burden would be on the individual to prove things one way or the other.
I Never Did Mind About The Little Things.....
https://youtu.be/OSQR_GpCtEo

Debra
Posts: 662
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:39 pm
Location: 16 Charente
Has thanked: 196 times
Been thanked: 258 times

Re: carte de sejour application

Post by Debra » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:32 am

Spectre wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:08 pm
It's all a bit confusing, we have 'titre permanent" CDS because I have worked here over 20 years. I would hope it would be pretty simple to change to non EU CDS, the cost is a PITA.
You may not have to since that was a card issued before the current freedom of movement directive came in and so is technically the equivalent of the carte de resident permanent issued to third country nationals now (can be issued with no expiry date). Or you may get a straight swap for a carte de resident permanent (bear in mind that's issued under French law, not EU law, so doesn't have the same free movement advantages as the carte de resident longue duree).

You'd get a different answer depending upon which prefecture you asked at the moment, unfortunately. Some would say it needs renewing because all cards are now renewable after ten years (I'd argue that isn't true of the carte de resident permanent) and want proof of continuous residence since it was issued, making it easier in some prefectures to just provide the latest five years of info to get a new one (some prefectures would accept avis d'impots for the intervening years but others would want a utility bill per semester too).

At this point you may as well wait until it's time to apply for the new one and argue that yours is valid since it has no expiry date. I'd advise scanning it though, both sides if it has info on each side, so if they take it when you ask or apply, you still have proof you had it.
These users thanked the author Debra for the post:
Shely (Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:49 pm)

Debra
Posts: 662
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:39 pm
Location: 16 Charente
Has thanked: 196 times
Been thanked: 258 times

Re: carte de sejour application

Post by Debra » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:36 am

They've been talking about the online system for a long time and it was supposed to be more simple so you never know, if the UK behave and do what they said, France might also make the system accept simple proofs of residence rather than insisting on the whole 'prove you exercised treaty rights for five years' thing.
These users thanked the author Debra for the post:
Shely (Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:49 pm)

rabbit
Posts: 607
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:04 am
Has thanked: 276 times
Been thanked: 226 times

Re: carte de sejour application

Post by rabbit » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:58 am

folleauvent wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:42 am
FrenchForumSurvivor wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:02 am
Plog wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:36 pm



The authorities are not daft. Unfortunately.
Fortunately ?

User avatar
DominicBest
Posts: 2578
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:13 pm
Has thanked: 111 times
Been thanked: 602 times

Re: carte de sejour application

Post by DominicBest » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:27 am

FrenchForumSurvivor wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:02 am
Plog wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:36 pm
DominicBest wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:24 pm
I’m not sure that Carte Vitale usage paints much of a picture for some people. All mine would do would be to show that I’d been in France a handful of times in the past six years. I was amazed to see how a bank statement from a random month clearly showed what I was doing and where I was doing it. Almost as clear as a photo.
Yep, If you talk to anyone who has been investigated by UK HMRC regarding whether they are resident or not in the UK for tax purposes ( not happened to me guv, but I know a few who have been through the wringer) you'll find out that the authorities place a lot emphasis on bank statements, and especially look for transactions where a debit card was used (ATMs, fuel purchases, general shopping..)
To be strictly correct, all a bank statement can show is how the card relating to the account was used, not who was using it.
Ever since I have lived in France I have declared my worldwide bank accounts. I can provide snapshots of any month from that period for those accounts and that gives a very clear indication of where I was at all times. If the authorities really believed that someone else was using my card and creating a false picture it really wouldn’t be too hard to prove that they were wrong. You are splitting hairs that do not need to be split. When I looked at two random bank statements a year going back over five years it really was like reading a diary. Proving it was me who was in many of those places at those times would hardly be difficult. If I was really trying to fool the authorities I would have really had to have put a huge amount of effort into it. With me it’s black and white, I have accounts in two banks, one here in France the other in the UK, the first illustrates my normal life, the second shows a monthly income from a reliable source, most of which is converted into Euros and sent to my French account. As I said before, crystal clear.
On the other hand bank accounts that don’t reflect normal everyday expectations could lead to a number of reasons for questioning an application for residence.
These users thanked the author DominicBest for the post (total 2):
Plog (Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:43 am) • bubbles1 (Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:49 pm)

Spardo
Posts: 552
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:27 pm
Location: Perigord Vert (24)
Has thanked: 173 times
Been thanked: 110 times
Contact:

Re: carte de sejour application

Post by Spardo » Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:53 pm

Well reading all this gives me some cause for comfort, I must have spent thousands on my French debit card, week after week over the past 9 years on diesel and meals so my location should be clear to anyone who cares to pursue it. :D

User avatar
bubbles1
Posts: 2562
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:34 pm
Location: Dept 24
Has thanked: 414 times
Been thanked: 327 times

Re: carte de sejour application

Post by bubbles1 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:56 pm

I agree with DB and S above - I havent used my UK cards in the UK for at least 6 years andthen it was for 10 days and before that it was about 8 years. Im quite laid back about it all cause

(a) Im bored shit;;;;s with it all
(b) Cant get an appointment anyway
(c) What will happen will happen so dont fret over what may not happen

Those who have got one (CdJ) - if they look it states EU citizen - if the big B word happens - it doesnt mean jack so why get all uptight about something that possibly will be out of date soon. ;)
WE CAN ALL SEE THE STARS BUT ONLY SOME OF US SEE THE LIGHT :good:

Post Reply