Diagnostic technique inspection

Hal
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Diagnostic technique inspection

Post by Hal » Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:29 pm

This one might be better placed in the room specialising in house selling, but I'll try here first.

How thorough is a diagnostic inspection? Assume the inspector is visiting a house that is obviously well maintained, what would his/her reaction be if he switched on a switch and 50 odd lights came on outside - indeed, would they switch on every light switch? would they even notice as I presume inspections are during the day..? Are they even au fait with the electrical regulations? Would they even care?

In this case, these are all my outside lights, now fitted with LEDs drawing a maximum theoretical 200W but probably 150W as some have 2W bulbs. As I converted them from halogen, I played the game and had handfuls on contacters, but I now need the space, so just joined them all up!

(listening to all the doom and gloom brexit comment on the forum, thought maybe I should prepare myself for a quick sale when CRS are sent in to evict me... :lol: )

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mysty
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Re: Diagnostic technique inspection

Post by mysty » Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:58 pm

Its not that thorough. They check the earth works, force a short to trip the fuses to make sure they work. Most houses have some faults, if they have not been wired recently.
Its not a big thing at the notaires when faults are mentioned.

They do not start pulling wires out the wall or anything like that.
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Le Démerdeur
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Re: Diagnostic technique inspection

Post by Le Démerdeur » Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:18 pm

Faults like non existant earthing, RCD's that dont trip when they should are quite rightfully highlighted, everything else is just maybe a non conformité with current regulations which an older property is not expected to comply with, at least that is the theory.

How it works in practice from a case that I know very well of a young friend buying a flat in Lille, not her first property either so she was in no way green, the cartel comprising of the immobilier, the courtier financière, the diagnostiqueur and the électricien screwed her so that the only way she was going to get the flat was to pay the sparky several grand to remettre le tableau au normes, but dont worry because we can just put the cost onto the mortgage so that you can pay it and interest over 35 years :cry:

I got involved and thanks to my contacts in Consuel got a copy of the original attestation de conformité and they started backpeddling but instead of doing the honourable thing they agreed that "just this once, exceptionnellement" they would allow her to retain the perfectly serviceable and conforming electrical installation but she would have to pay an extra 2% on the mortgage rate plus take out an additional insurance, of course they waited till the last minute to spring that one on her but to her credit she stood firm and formally withdrew from the purchase at which point everything miraculously fell into place :roll:

She has retained the original electrical installation just like all her neighbours.

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RobertArthur
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Re: Diagnostic technique inspection

Post by RobertArthur » Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:16 pm

The official website of the French Government doesn't need close reading: the so called DEO test is obligatoire, the results are there to clarify possible security issues. Quote: <<.... aperçu de la sécurité des installations électriques d'un logement >>. To inform the new owner - or tenant - about the condition of the wiring. Not any obligation for seller/buyer to bring everything in conformity with the latest regs of the French electrical code.

Démerdeur has already asked our attention for the gap between theory and practice. Even Promotelec pays only lip service to what has been laid down in the relevant regulations and almost suggests that you should immediately hire a qualified electrician. Yes, in the case of security risks, but not to add a wired network and several extra circuits spécialisés etc. to be in line with Amendement 5 of the electrical code. Have a look at the following text: << L’existence d’anomalies au niveau de l’installation électrique ne bloque pas la vente. Si le diagnostic a été effectué suffisamment tôt, vous pouvez envisager de faire faire des travaux pour remédier à ces anomalies avant la vente du bien. Faites pour cela appel à un installateur électricien qualifié. >> Further reading: Promotelec document for sellers/buyers and landlords/tenants.

There is maybe a small semantic difference between mise en sécurité and mise en conformité, Promotelec is well aware of that, but is a bit hesitating in their publications about the Diagnostic Électrique Obligatoire (DEO) to inform the readers about the huge financial difference.

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Re: Diagnostic technique inspection

Post by Hal » Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:39 pm

Thanks everyone! Perfectly clear now!

Since writing, I have added two more to the daisy chain - two tree uplighters taking the theoretical draw to 208W!

I have labelled each circuit and its original power source so, no panic should it be discovered!

Bring on the CRS. :D

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Re: Diagnostic technique inspection

Post by Hal » Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:18 pm

Is it verboten in France to use single MCBs - ie, as one is allowed in the UK to directly wire neutrals back to source and just protect the live feeds?

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RobertArthur
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Re: Diagnostic technique inspection

Post by RobertArthur » Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:13 pm

Да, это запрещено

Yes, that is not allowed

French history: old unipolaire left, unipolaire + neutre in the middle and bipolaire right in this picture.

French electrical code (N 10.1.4.7.2), quote from: "L'Officiel de l'Électricité" :

<< Le conducteur neutre et le(s) conducteur(s) de phase de chacun des circuits doivent pouvoir être sectionnés. En pratique, pour faciliter l'installation, cette fonction de sectionnement est assurée par les appareils de protection à coupure phase + neutre couramment utilisés.>>

The checklist of the DEO security test.

Last but not least a lifebuoy.

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Fitter
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Re: Diagnostic technique inspection

Post by Fitter » Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:52 pm

Loved this one:-

https://professionnels.promotelec.com/f ... alle-deau/


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Hal
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Re: Diagnostic technique inspection

Post by Hal » Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:52 pm

Thanks Robert. I thought it was the case. Pity as I want to join two circuits into one, but they are fed from different consumer boards with a solid terrace between and there is no way I can feed anything under!

As a matter of interest why does one country allow this (Iam assuming the UK still allows it?) and not another? I can see a theoretical safety reason, but in reality?

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RobertArthur
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Re: Diagnostic technique inspection

Post by RobertArthur » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:22 pm

Hal, aso real safety reasons: if someone - electrician/DIY/ERDF technician during an emergency repair - switches left/right (two black wires...) you'll get the phase on what you suppose to be the neutral wiring. Not so pleasant surprise if you think that switching off a circuit, without measuring, is enough. In hospitals etc. even more safety rules. Use of MCB's (real bipolaire) with overload sensing not only in the phase but also the neutral. Other example: double pole switches in equipment. In the case of the European/German schuko socket you never know what the feeding wire is inside your cable. In France there is only one position possible for the plug/socket combination. Everything okay as long as the electricians follow standard wiring practices (left/right issue again) and cable manufacturers know what they are doing. Not only theory as you can read here in this article about a US step-down transformer in Europe.
Last edited by RobertArthur on Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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