Linky, electricity tariffs and disjoncteurs

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elsie
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Linky, electricity tariffs and disjoncteurs

Post by elsie » Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:30 am

When my Linky were installed, the new method of re-setting with the Linky rather than with the disjoncteur if the current was cut was explained. I've not had to use it yet but I thought it sensible to find out more although I'd only had one disconnection since 2002 with the old meters.

In another topic (Telling off from Enedis), Chancer had mentioned being able to go 35% over the tariff rating; I decided to try to find more about the Linky disjoncteur and the overcurrent limit.

I found these three linked articles (not official) https://wp.me/p7XdYR-j5, https://wp.me/p7XdYR-mM and http://tinyurl.com/yb5cjqgq which give a fuller explanation of how the LInky measures current and why it might be necessary to increase the tariff subscription. According to it, the overcurrrent limit for old system is 15%.

The power in the electricity supply tariff subscription terms changed in 2010 (did anyone notice or realise the significance?) from e.g. 6kW to 6kWA (the active power) and the Linky measures active power. The power is expressed in kVA or kW, while the consumption is expressed in kWh (if a comparison was made to a vehicle's consumption, the electrical power, kVA or kW, would correspond to the vehicle's instantaneous fuel consumption, while the electrical consumption, kWh, would correspond to the average fuel consumption). A table in the second article indicates for a 6kVA tariff the maximum active amperes reduces from 30.00 for a classic meter to 26.09 for a Linky.

So it is quite possible it will be necessary to subscribe to the next tariff up to avoid disconnections. Hopefully the potential savings from installing LED lighting, a more energy efficient washing machine, etc will help to pay for the additional cost if I do need to upgrade the subscription

This is one of the notices which came in the sealed envelope I received. The last section Que faire si vous n’avez
plus d’électricité? http://tinyurl.com/ycf2wqp3 explains how to reset in case of Linky disconnection. In the second case, where the Linky is remote (e.g. in a locked cabinet outside), and the main disjoncteur hasn't tripped it should be possible to reset the Linky by switching the main disjoncteur off for three seconds and then on again.
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Aardvark
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Re: Linky, electricity tariffs and disjoncteurs

Post by Aardvark » Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:58 am

We used to use the term "ripoff Britain" but the term fits quite well with the electricity providers here. Why do we have to pay more for "potential" access to a higher supply rating that we may never use? It seems unfair. Some people are paying more for connection charges than for the actual consumption. The whole system sucks.
Brexit [breg-zit, brek-sit] noun, The process where politicians and other lower life forms use democracy to perform the socio-economic destruction of a country.
see also Armageddon

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Re: Linky, electricity tariffs and disjoncteurs

Post by pomme homme » Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:33 am

I suppose the only truly effective answer is to go off grid.

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Re: Linky, electricity tariffs and disjoncteurs

Post by elsie » Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:23 pm

Aardvark wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:58 am
We used to use the term "ripoff Britain" but the term fits quite well with the electricity providers here. Why do we have to pay more for "potential" access to a higher supply rating that we may never use? It seems unfair. Some people are paying more for connection charges than for the actual consumption. The whole system sucks.
You don't have to pay for a "potential" access to a higher supply rating that we may never use. You can keep the lower setting and take a decision to increase the tariff if you keep tripping the Linky. With the old meters people are happy to go over the limit but could still end up tripping the disjoncteur. Is that also unfair?

In the UK I believe you usually subscribe to an 80 amp single phase supply. Are you suggesting a refund if you never go over 30 amp?

Here they could just note how much you use over the tariff you have subscribed to and then charge you extra?

The EDF base tariffs are https://www.fournisseur-energie.com/?p=20717
KVA Abonnement annuel Prix du kWh
3 67.04 € TTC 0.1546 € TTC
6 100.74 € TTC 0.1466 € TTC
9 118.74 € TTC 0.1483 € TTC
12 137.12 € TTC
15 155.63 € TTC
18 176.93 € TTC
24 214.58 € TTC
30 255.14 € TTC
36 287.22 € TTC

So you are also unhappy you pay less per unit kWh for a 6KVA than 3KVA?
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Re: Linky, electricity tariffs and disjoncteurs

Post by RobertArthur » Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:44 pm

Smart meters, part of the smart grid concept, an ongoing discussion. Started in the early nineties, introduction of the first smart meters in Italy around 2000. A few additional remarks.

1/ Department technicalities and the old main switch, the disjoncteur de branchement. It is an electromechanical device with production tolerances. To be on the safe side for the customers the "bandwith" of intervention in the case of an overload is situated above the nominal current values. For a 9kVA device this is 45 A. At the time of introduction the EDF tried to sell as much as possible of the (over)production of their nuclear power plants, nobody complained. Electric heating and electric chauffe-eaux. See picture below as published by Legrand for more details:

Image

Most of these old main switches have an average overload tolerance of 30%, some even higher, some a little bit lower. But always a minimum level of 115 % of I-nominal as laid down in the design regulations. For Elsie's 6 kVA example of a nominal current of 30 amps you would get 39 amps effectively, much more than the 26.09 amps for Linky. A tolerant behaviour of these old disjoncteurs also for surge currents, switch on of an electrical motor or heater (washing machine). The new Linky smart meters are electronic sharp shooters: do not pass your nominal current limit or....trespassers not allowed.

2/ Department history: the engineers living downstairs in the EDF building were fully aware of all this and even discussed it during international meetings. Upstairs where the management lives and their servants of the PR department there was some hesitation to take this on board of the publicity efforts: the smart meter is green, is going to save electricity, good for the planet, and save money for the cher client. Everybody happy?
No, during the first field experiments this policy of zero tolerance didn't go unnoticed. Once again this timeline of the introduction of Linky in France.

3/ Department French resistance: several local authorities and individual consumers try to say "no" to the introduction of Linky. Indeed, many letter templates circulating on the internet, an example. Any success? Yes and no. The EDF/ERDF/ENEDIS being a state within a state focusses it's attention to get rid off the bigger pockets of resistance during the roll out. One of the many villages scared by the prospect of bankruptcy. It's not easy to counter attack a busload of clever ENEDIS lawyers. The others will follow in due time I'm afraid.

4/ Department technicalities continued: interesting studies around about the supposed precision of smart meters. Not all electric loads are equal these days, not the simple linear behaviour of an incandescent lamp or a piece of wire in an electric heater any more.

5/ Department practicalities (at last): an English manual for the single-phase Linky and it's three-phase brother
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