Multi-fuel Ballon

Mike
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Re: Multi-fuel Ballon

Post by Mike » Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:40 pm

I found it impossible to get a brass/metal ball valve and float in France, brought ours over from the UK and fitted it to the tank installed by the so called Artisan for the Rayburn, he surfaced mounted everything and did not bond any of the copper pipes. :roll: in fact nothing was bonded when we moved in.

Doug
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Re: Multi-fuel Ballon

Post by Doug » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:18 pm

Mike wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:59 pm
Doug I bow to your knowledge, but isn't the pressure steam caused by the excess heat and water expansion and, therefore by releasing the steam into the expansion tank would release the pressure and dissipate the heat?
Not enough, it would do the same time and again if no proper heat sink.
Or as said later explode, a steam release valve should be fitted on the flow near the boiler as another safety feature.

Le Démerdeur
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Re: Multi-fuel Ballon

Post by Le Démerdeur » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:13 pm

I thought that open expansion tanks were not permitted in France?

Is that not the reason why parts like the ball valves are unavailable and other stuff like ballon serpentines are much more expensive because they are close circuit mains pressure?

I appreciate for the situation in question from a safetly point of view and open expansion tank is sensible and I would not hesitate to fit one rather than risk an explosion if something else does its job.

I returned home from work once to find a boiler that had been running away all day (thermostat stuck) ceaking and banging everywhere and the loft where most of the noise was was full of steam, scary but given time to reflevt everything was doing its job as Vic describes and would have carried on doing so without any risk.

Mike
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Re: Multi-fuel Ballon

Post by Mike » Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:25 pm

Doug wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:18 pm
Mike wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:59 pm
Doug I bow to your knowledge, but isn't the pressure steam caused by the excess heat and water expansion and, therefore by releasing the steam into the expansion tank would release the pressure and dissipate the heat?
Not enough, it would do the same time and again if no proper heat sink.
Or as said later explode, a steam release valve should be fitted on the flow near the boiler as another safety feature.
So what you are saying is that there is no need for a expansion tank if you fit a gravity radiator?

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Polarengineer
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Re: Multi-fuel Ballon

Post by Polarengineer » Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:44 am

It seems to me that UK expats just do not attempt to change thier ideas when comfronted with european conventions with regard to plumbing or electricity. Sadly a lot of good methods with regards to plumbing are ignored. France and the Netherlands ( of which I know for certain, but other european countries may also be included) mostly have a pressure system and not a gravity tank. The pressure system has an expansion tank ( "vase" a closed vessel with a nitrogen filled bladder) the back boiler is normally fitted with two coils whereby a cold cooling coil is fitted inside the boiler coil. A mechanical thermostatic valve admits cold mains water to cool the boiler coil on overheat. This is your heat sink in an emergency. The hot water system from the ballon has a pressure relief valve which usually comes with the ballon. As you draw hot water quite frequently, the need for an expansion vessel is voided. The expansion of the ballon and pipework over the minor fluctuations of temperature, cope for the expansion of water. One must remember that with this system a drain is needed for the emergency heat sink cooling coil, which can also be the drain from the back boiler safety valve. A drain is also needed for the ballon safety valve.
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landmannnn
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Re: Multi-fuel Ballon

Post by landmannnn » Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:32 am

And the low pressure gravity systems are pretty much obsolete in the UK.
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Doug
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Re: Multi-fuel Ballon

Post by Doug » Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:36 am

Mike wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:25 pm
Doug wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:18 pm
Mike wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:59 pm
Doug I bow to your knowledge, but isn't the pressure steam caused by the excess heat and water expansion and, therefore by releasing the steam into the expansion tank would release the pressure and dissipate the heat?
Not enough, it would do the same time and again if no proper heat sink.
Or as said later explode, a steam release valve should be fitted on the flow near the boiler as another safety feature.
So what you are saying is that there is no need for a expansion tank if you fit a gravity radiator?
Read the posts feller, get real, of course you need an expansion tank.
I now withdraw from this post as obviously to some I'm talking through the back of my head.
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Mike
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Re: Multi-fuel Ballon

Post by Mike » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:37 am

Obviously not able to discuss things rationally.

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