Are EVs really the future?

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Tom
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Are EVs really the future?

Post by Tom » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:09 pm

Tesla's 85 kWh battery pack weighs 1,200 lb (540 kg) and contains 7,104 lithium-ion battery cells
That's an awful lot of expensive weight to be lugging around in a car and your range is still quite limited. Surely we should be concentrating our efforts on hydrogen fuel cell powered vehicles. Wind farms, tidal and solar power can convert their surplus energy into storable liquid hydrogen. Scotland is doing this already. Batteries alone are not practical for lorries and buses but hydrogen fuel cells can be infinitely scaled up.
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Re: Are EVs really the future?

Post by bluebird » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:11 pm


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Re: Are EVs really the future?

Post by Tom » Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:00 pm

:good: Your's is a very interesting link, bluebird, although maybe a bit misleading. It seems as if London Transport's pure electric, hybrid and hydrogen busses have all been lumped together under the title electric. Of course they are all propelled by electric motors but it's a question of how efficiently they acquire and store their electricity

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_emi ... _in_London
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Re: Are EVs really the future?

Post by mysty » Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:11 pm

My very economical adblue diesel engine gets me to 60 in six seconds and returns over 70mpg.
Electric cars have a long way to go before they can replace a good cleanish diesel.
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Re: Are EVs really the future?

Post by Ally » Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:34 pm

I don't think so. Technology is advancing exponentially. Prices will fall, batteries will become smaller and more efficient. The difficulty will be when to take the plunge. But there will be a time.
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Re: Are EVs really the future?

Post by bluebird » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:47 pm

Yes the EV is still in it's infancy, although battery technology has moved at a fast past. There are a few concerns, such as reliable supplies of Lithium (with reserves of 15 million tonnes and known resources of 65 million tonnes, mined from places like Chile, Bolivia and Argentina), also the lack of a recycling strategy for Lithium, which at present seems to be restricted to potential use for energy storage. Not sure on that as a large scale solution.
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Re: Are EVs really the future?

Post by mysty » Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:51 am

I went off googling last night. A five minute battery charge could be with us soon but its still pie in the sky just now.
And you do not want to buy a second hand electric car unless you can afford new batteries. They are like battery tools and phones the more you use and charge them the shorter life you get out of the batteries.
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Re: Are EVs really the future?

Post by Tom » Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:41 am

https://amp.ft.com/content/c586475e-726 ... eb837566c5

:D The other advantage of liquid hydrogen is that it contains about three times more energy than the equivalent volume of diesel. Conversely, the best batteries contain about three times less. So hydrogen beats batteries by a factor of nearly ten to one in terms of efficienct energy storage.
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Re: Are EVs really the future?

Post by Fitter » Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:14 pm

"The other advantage of liquid hydrogen is that it contains about three times more energy than the equivalent volume of diesel"

Hydrogen has a high energy content by weight, but not by volume.

Hydrogen has a very low volumetric energy density at ambient conditions, equal to about one-third that of methane. Even when the fuel is stored as liquid hydrogen in a cryogenic tank or in a compressed hydrogen storage tank, the volumetric energy density (megajoules per liter) is small relative to that of gasoline.

I had a bit of a hard time getting my brain around that one, but if you remember that hydrogen is the lightest element it kind of makes sense.
Last edited by Fitter on Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Are EVs really the future?

Post by Captain Morgan » Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:10 pm

A fundamental question is where does the hydrogen come from? It needs to be produced by electrolysis then stored and transported to local distribution sites. The overall production cycle is, currently at least, very inefficient.

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